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  1. #11
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by violaine View Post
    I know we've talked more about this elsewhere but I just want to say in thread that whether he means to or not, you are being f**ked with.
    Yeah, I read through the other lengthy thread about this guy, and I totally agree!!

    Quote Originally Posted by violaine View Post
    Sometimes I think a person can look so hard at motivations and justify things in that way that they can't see the forest for the trees. I do it all the time and I suspect NFs are particularly prone to that kind of thinking. But all you can reliably go on is what you see and how a person you are involved with makes you feel.
    Also totally agree. And I think this is an NF kind of thing to do. Particularly if you have romantic/sexual feelings for someone...I think that can totally cloud everything else. A guy who I had feelings for for a few YEARS (he just kind of strung me along, which I think he has been doing with a few girls...and I'm probably going to see him at a party this weekend for the first time in six months...uh oh!!) was treating me with disrespect in so many ways, even just as a friend, and really using me as a free therapist. But I remember some conversations I had with a mutual friend about him - I'd be like "well, he does this this this this and this which is unacceptable...but I just see more in him!!" I really wanted to think the best of him, partly because I do that about people generally, partly because I had feelings for him. But in the end I was just justifying bad behaviour, and he wasn't even being a good friend, and had it ever progressed to something more it would have been disastrous.
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  2. #12
    violaine
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    ^(Ooh, we talk off the board too, I just wanted to get my five cents in here as well. ).

    Also, NFs can be addicted to hope. (I don't mean to exclude other types who do this, I just know NFs do it). Hoping that a situation will change for the better can keep a person stuck. Hope is something that should be rationed as a precious commodity imo.

  3. #13
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentfurrina View Post
    addicted to powerplay? 100% agree.

    w/r/t his careful study of it, that reminds me of a scene in the film Slingblade. the killer is telling his drunken victim that he's studied on killing him, "studied on it quite a bit." at times i feel that i'm in the presence of someone standing at the roadside, watching me sleepwalk into oncoming traffic. no intention to stop me, just observing. part of what i think is happening is that i'm not engaging his heart. his mind isn't 100% sure he wants to be with me. so i guess what i'm left with is, a chode.



    i very much think he needs to fall on his ass. he is due for a humbling based on what i've seen. i just don't think it would serve me on any level to BE that agent. i think the ultimate humbling might be that he dies alone. (not that i want that for him but i think it's the only one he'd be affected by). he's confessed that dying alone is his only fear. i, on the other hand and very gratefully, have forged strong relationships with friends and family...it is a virtual impossibility that i meet that fate. but when he told me about that fear, i realized how alone he must be.



    yeah, i kinda wish INTJs who like dominance + who've been rejected would comment on that. the "target" and the game. as a fellow ENFP, i know what it is to target someone. i certainly know about games, but those usually involve sheets with Twister dots printed on them.

    any games i play are ultimately a desire to engage someone on a very deep level. i think this guy uses women until he finds one he can "tolerate" intellectually for a while. subjugates her, decides it isn't working, then moves on. interestingly enough, his last girlfriend of 2 years became slightly verbally abusive and often lashed out at him when stressed. he stuck around for 2 years then ended it. i met him right after they broke up. anyway, he does have a weak side, but only made himself vulnerable with her after she became sub. i think he's still reeling from the realization that he misjudged the situation/was wrong about her. i may very well be dealing with the "that's never going to happen to me again" backlash.



    agreed. the playing field is not level here. he might experience an intellectual or physical thrill of the chase, but his emotions are squarely in check.
    I can see why you like him

    You probably see through him and see his vulnerabiility and it's highly endearing probably. Doesn't make him any less dangerous to you though, coz from your post it shows you're affected by his game. And the danger element is what makes it even more fun..coz it plays on your own pride (can I win this?) If he's worth the attention, you could just be around him without engaging his game and showing him he has nothing to fear, even if he doesn't have *all* control. But that'll take a lot of time and dedication, with an uncertain outcome.

    It would seem that he needs to learn that while he might prefer to have control, it's not going to kill you if you don't, especially with the right person. That some people won't take advantage of that. And that he shouldn't either, if he expects his own vulnerability to be appreciated for what it is. That in order for them to respect that part of him (something he might even resent himself for), he needs to respect their flaws as well, and that it is possible for someone to love you because of those flaws, not only inspite.

    *smiles* Oh, he's a doozy, project-wise

    Edit: In light Jim's post later on, I wanted to clarify that this isn't a way to exact revenge on someone, but rather a way to protect yourself from that game as you get to know him and see what's there.
    Last edited by Amargith; 02-26-2011 at 06:05 AM.
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  4. #14
    Unlimited Dancemoves ® AgentF's Avatar
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    well, i'm actually game. and can commit to regaling the forum with the details post-puncture.

    he wants me to go away with him for a [presumably] romantic weekend on the coast next weekend. any suggestions on how to administer The Humbling?

    order a male escort through room service?
    humiliate him with a vegetable?
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  5. #15
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Girl..you've just agreed to play the game on *his* terms, where he feels safe. I'd play that game, if at all, on *my* terms.
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  6. #16
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Grin.. in a way you're right, but I dunno if she's ready to do that without being sucked into his game. He needs someone to do this to him though and pronto.
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    Although I will admit that sometimes selective presentation of truth has, as a means to an end, seduced one. I'd be relatively surprised if the average INTJ maintains it for very long though because it becomes tiring. It's isolating too. But if someone kept meeting success with it, it'd possibly get to seem viable.
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  7. #17
    Unlimited Dancemoves ® AgentF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    I can see why you like him

    You probably see through him and see his vulnerabiility and it's highly endearing probably. Doesn't make him any less dangerous to you though, coz from your post it shows you're affected by his game. And the danger element is what makes it even more fun..coz it plays on your own pride (can I win this?) If he's worth the attention, you could just be around him without engaging his game and showing him he has nothing to fear, even if he doesn't have *all* control. But that'll take a lot of time and dedication, with an uncertain outcome.

    It would seem that he needs to learn that while he might prefer to have control, it's not going to kill you if you don't, especially with the right person. That some people won't take advantage of that. And that he shouldn't either, if he expects his own vulnerability to be appreciated for what it is. That in order for them to respect that part of him (something he might even resent himself for), he needs to respect their flaws as well, and that it is possible for someone to love you because of those flaws, not only inspite.

    *smiles* Oh, he's a doozy, project-wise
    very insightful. the force is strong with you, Satine...

    you are obviously familiar with the inherent challenge involved with this type. but it isn't coming from a healthy, whole place. to Violaine's point, i would tell my little sister to bolt if she were in my shoes. in fact, i might stage an intervention. but that is because we are engaged in an unhealthy loop.

    i like the thought of earning his trust. there is something beautiful about him. he has absolutely no idea that it has nothing to do with his intellect, his financial success, his technical honesty. he gained all that through careful study of cost/benefit ratios. what i like about him is the vulnerable little boy that i've seen glimpses of.

    however, if we're speaking of games: i certainly don't want to play a game while harboring feelings of disgust over his self-servitude/arrogance/manipulation skills. if anything, i'd like to have an honest discussion about those things. i offered to last night when he did his Johari window. he said "i already know about smug and don't need that discussion." i told him he might need a stiff drink before hearing me out on the a descriptor that he said disappointed him: cowardly. he said he's ready for that conversation now.

    so i could have that conversation next weekend, under the auspices of explaining why i can't be with him. i really couldn't be with a coward, anyway. and i see his manipulation of women as cowardly.
    Last edited by AgentF; 02-25-2011 at 01:01 PM. Reason: spelltard
    I may be kindly, I am ordinarily gentle, but in my line of business I am obliged to will terribly what I will at all.
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  8. #18
    Unlimited Dancemoves ® AgentF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Girl..you've just agreed to play the game on *his* terms, where he feels safe. I'd play that game, if at all, on *my* terms.
    tell me more! plot with me...
    I may be kindly, I am ordinarily gentle, but in my line of business I am obliged to will terribly what I will at all.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by violaine View Post
    Also, NFs can be addicted to hope. (I don't mean to exclude other types who do this, I just know NFs do it). Hoping that a situation will change for the better can keep a person stuck. Hope is something that should be rationed as a precious commodity imo.
    did someone say hope?

    i'm officially disgusted with myself. yes, yes, it's all foolish hope. ultimately, the fear of losing my sometimes playmate. who, coincidentally, i never "had".

    but, yeah. i like a project as much as any other unrealistic, easily excitable girl. powerful and smart men are my drug, and they really shouldn't be. i'm plenty powerful in my own way - and it just devolves into a power game. if it were confined to the bedroom, that's one thing. maybe it should be. maybe, that is what he is trying to do. get me to disengage emotionally, move on (he said that my decision to not date others pressured him! + is happy i'm dating other people) and remain friendly with occasional benefits.

    how utterly appealing.
    I may be kindly, I am ordinarily gentle, but in my line of business I am obliged to will terribly what I will at all.
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    Johari.

  10. #20
    Unlimited Dancemoves ® AgentF's Avatar
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    psst. INTx men, please post...
    I may be kindly, I am ordinarily gentle, but in my line of business I am obliged to will terribly what I will at all.
    ~ Catherine the Great


    7w6 ❣ sx/so ❤ physical touch ❥ sanguine 70%, choleric 30% ❦

    Johari.

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