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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentfurrina View Post
    how would you react if someone you like/respect (or have told you do ) were to tell you he/she sees through those tactics and finds it hard to have a friendship as a result? not in a rude or judgmental way, just matter of fact?
    There is a misunderstanding here, Ni users build walls of thought to protect their inner psyche more often than not. Intuition in it's introverted form feels the environment is threatening and tries to hide from it, seeking a safe environment to interact with. As Satine says; ENFPs have the magical ability to walk right through them and to play with the squishy inner Ni bits than many other types do. The other complication of Ni is that an Ni user can be crippled by even occasional small remarks by someone who they value or who they trust to let inside those walls. It's a learned defensive behaviour that is intrinsic to the type of cognition Ni dominants have.

    The easiest way to separate an INFJ and an INFP? Prod an INFJ with a personal question when they don't know you and watch them slink around it. Slinky... slinky slink.

    The easiest way to separate an INTJ from a crowd? Prod an INTJ with a personal question when they are uncomfortable and watch them ask a rhetorical question that only 'gives hints to the answer' in response; especially whilst in the crowd. Awkward shuffle, sometimes two is a crowd.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    There is a misunderstanding here, Ni users build walls of thought to protect their inner psyche more often than not. Intuition in it's introverted form feels the environment is threatening and tries to hide from it, seeking a safe environment to interact with. As Satine says; ENFPs have the magical ability to walk right through them and to play with the squishy inner Ni bits than many other types do. The other complication of Ni is that an Ni user can be crippled by even occasional small remarks by someone who they value or who they trust to let inside those walls. It's a learned defensive behaviour that is intrinsic to the type of cognition Ni dominants have.
    Yes, this is true. I've only recently started to realize how much I try to control/account for everything, and much of my method of control is to be very protective with who is in my life in the first place. Extremely... preventative approach, rather than reactive. As for the walls... well, truthfully, I don't even want to be close to the vast majority of people. So the walls are very good in most cases. Of course the 'danger' is then not knowing how to remove them when I really don't want them there with those select few people; and unlearning some of what I naturally tend to do.

    As to being crippled by small remarks from those we truly value, of course *because* we value/respect/care about them, we will probably hold their words/opinion far above that of others who aren't in our life in a similar capacity (This seems to be one of those 'human' things though - who doesn't do this?). Also, they've then by that point been incorporated into my life, and into my future, sort of - they're a part of my overall view -- so if they'd say something to bring all of that into question, well, that's a lot to potential rework internally - in terms of life view/vision, and my own ability to make good judgements might be called into question (by myself).

    And if someone I TRULY liked/respected told me my walls sucked, etc etc, I think I'd most certainly withdraw and wouldn't trust them anymore because I'm sorry, my walls are just who I am to a degree, and slowly, slowly they'll be let down if someone over time is consistent and shows that they really want to know me - no matter what, and no matter how long it might take. If they 'let' me have my walls, my walls are much more likely to come down. I suppose, in a way, that's a bit of a test; if I don't have to BE anyone else than myself - myself being someone who's naturally protective and preventative - I'm free to be me without being pressured into opening up on the other persons' turf/pacing, then I'll feel more accepted and will then be that much more trusting/likely to then open up more, on my own. If they try to push me to be more open, quicker than I naturally would, I'd withdraw and would probably decide they're not the type of friend/relationship I really want. In fact - that's a theme, really - people who in the onset try to speed things up and push the intimacy/openness factor, and subtly label me as 'defective' for being more protective and slower-paced - get booted out fast. That's a dynamic that really, really bothers me.

    If I'm already invested in someone (already chosen/decided I want them in my life), I'd probably be hurt and feel rejected if they then said they couldn't be my friend because of my rather private nature. Because, in essence, they really have a probem with who I am, then - and it's totally fine if my pacing doesn't jive with theirs and they need someone who's more naturally open and such, and if on their end they can't be friends with someone like me, but.... yeah.

    I've probably totally tangented at this point and this isn't really related to the op anymore, but...
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  3. #103
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    this is fascinating.

    do you think INTJs hope or wish to be "known and accepted" then?
    I may be kindly, I am ordinarily gentle, but in my line of business I am obliged to will terribly what I will at all.
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentfurrina View Post
    this is fascinating.

    do you think INTJs hope or wish to be "known and accepted" then?
    Not really. I think in contrast to INFJs we are completely happy not be known and accepted, even by those close to us as long as we can find and maintain a comfortable balance. But when we do trust someone and open up then are rejected we kick ourselves very hard for offering that trust.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    ENFPs have the magical ability to walk right through them and to play with the squishy inner Ni bits than many other types do.
    The easiest way to separate an INFJ and an INFP? Prod an INFJ with a personal question when they don't know you and watch them slink around it. Slinky... slinky slink.
    The easiest way to separate an INTJ from a crowd? Prod an INTJ with a personal question when they are uncomfortable and watch them ask a rhetorical question that only 'gives hints to the answer' in response; especially whilst in the crowd. Awkward shuffle, sometimes two is a crowd.
    ENFPs magical ability to play squishy inner wha!? News to me. And INFJs and INFPs like slinky's, since when? And INTJ questioning, unless you mean ask knowledgeable questions that are going to require intelligent answers.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    My walls are just who I am
    Why are your walls who you are, are you saying your walls are your identity?

  6. #106
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    Why are your walls who you are, are you saying your walls are your identity?
    It's more that that element of myself - and everything I described above - isn't something that I see changing. My actual Identity goes far beyond that - but how I go about interacting with people, presenting myself to the world, and letting people in my life/ deciding if I would like them in my life, isn't really going to change.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    ENFPs magical ability to play squishy inner wha!? News to me. And INFJs and INFPs like slinky's, since when? And INTJ questioning, unless you mean ask knowledgeable questions that are going to require intelligent answers.

    Why are your walls who you are, are you saying your walls are your identity?
    I don't think you understood my statements, I said that INFJs and INTJs are like slinkies.

    Yes, the walls are our identities, we wear who we think we are on our sleeves as much as Ji-Pes such as INFPs might voice who they think they are and their beliefs continually, we try to show that via action in how we live and structure the world - hence why you tend to find that Pi-Je types become vocal the more stressed they are instead of less.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    It's more that that element of myself - and everything I described above - isn't something that I see changing. My actual Identity goes far beyond that - but how I go about interacting with people, and letting people in my life/ deciding if I would like them in my life, isn't really going to change.
    Thanks, it is interesting to read the insight. Does that mean privacy is really important, as well as trust, integrity and safety before sharing part of the inner world?

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    I don't think you understood my statements, I said that INFJs and INTJs are like slinkies.

    Yes, the walls are our identities, we wear who we think we are on our sleeves as much as Ji-Pes such as INFPs might voice who they think they are, we try to show that via action in how we live and structure the world.
    That makes more sense, how about the need for debating and valuing intelligence, would the right kind of intelligent question and background in knowledge of subject matter be more helpful in how receptive and respectful you become to another persons opinions?

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    That makes more sense, how about the need for debating and valuing intelligence, would the right kind of intelligent question and background in knowledge of subject matter be more helpful in how receptive and respectful you become to another persons opinions?
    Yes, but its a double edged sword, ask a dumb question in the wrong way whilst demanding a kind of respect that we don't view that action to represent will puzzle us and can be distasteful.

    As mentioned early, certainly INTJs place a lot of value in demarcating experiences and individuals and also the responses of those individuals in the environment.

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