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  1. #41
    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    Mippus, to quote whatever:
    I have friendships that mean a lot to me.. one of the reasons is that we do not scratch eachother's back, we do not make public displays of affection or evern recognition, but in private deeply appreciate one another and have a high quality friendship due to what is given and received. The other type.. I have absolutely no desire for.
    Please, take no offence. My comment is not meant as cynical as it may look like. What I say is that we value friendship because we get something from it. What that "something" is, can vary: idea's, challenge, respect, love, attention, identity, security... and social connection. That is more than scratching eachother's backs (however satisfying that may be ).
    Such a typical (and maybe horrible) NT-statement...
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

  2. #42
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Ah, indeed we do.. and we all have different needs.

  3. #43
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    some connection is better than no connection- and often they start with the most seemingly insignifigant gestures

    what may at first appear shallow can often lead to something deeper if people don't write it off!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #44
    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    Ah, indeed we do.. and we all have different needs.
    This is another element of online dynamics that I really appreciate: a willingness to debate and change opinions as a result from it. Not everybody's ego allows this, but on this specific forum, I have the impression that many put pride aside and really exchange opinions and ideas...

    I'd scratch your back for inspiring me, Dana, but I know you don't like that
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

  5. #45
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Another interesting and controversial aspect of this site is how some people/groups seem to require and demand production of saccharine validation/affirmation/attention. It's hard to precisely label it, but here's an example:

    Member 1: I had such a rough day. It's so hard to... I try so hard, but sometimes I feel like...

    All this is calculated, in my estimation, to elicit this type of response:

    Member 2: It's okay! You're a great person, blah blah blah...

    That response only encourages Member 1 to continue with the pity/validation game instead of address why he or she really needs that validation. I find it pretty fascinating. It seems like it's a very SFJ thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    Strategic alliances between people are also a part of forum culture There's always a lot of "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" going on between people- responding to posts by people who respond to your posts, repping people who rep you, supporting those who are supportive of you...
    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    But what do you get from all this other than friendships forged by a motive?
    This is probably my number one observation of the goings on here and how alliances form. Not that these alliances are evil or anything it's just they seem to be very superficial and you're right about the SFJish thing. This is how my coworker's act at work and then go swipe at each other when their backs are turned. And it's just so odd that as Fe dominant, this behavior is something I don't engage in, here or IRL (kinda grosses me out actually).

    Alliances form when members with lots of reputation "gift" n00bs or older members with a high rep. I think it forces, or rather creates unspoken reciprocity agreements between members forming an alliance. Commenting often in someone's blog is a good way of forming an alliance as well, no matter how trite the comment, just doing it works. But as far as blogs are concerned, it's nice when someone gives good feedback and commentary on something instead of a pat on the butt.

    I think alliance formation deters the flow of ideas on the forum because if some gives you hundreds of rep points, you're not going to be as quick to publicly disagree with them. And top it off with the petting and stroking that goes on in the blogs ("Girl/Boy, I can't believe that shithead did that to you! You are special and deserve to be a celestial body!!") instead of doing what Edahn and Dana pointed out...where is the depth? It's just a bunch of fakeness running around. It's like getting daily Botox injections. And I think that any healthy disagreement that would naturally surface on the forum is tamped down because people don't feel like they can disagree (on a non-Big Five topic of course). What happens when things are preserved in sugar? No nutritional value whatsoever. But then pickling and salting everything isn't very nutritional either, so eh.

    Sorry for just repeating what other people have already said, I just wanted to add my agreement.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  6. #46
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    some connection is better than no connection- and often they start with the most seemingly insignifigant gestures

    what may at first appear shallow can often lead to something deeper if people don't write it off!
    But what is the connection based on? All it is is a bunch of yes people. Quality control.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  7. #47
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mippus View Post
    I'd scratch your back for inspiring me, Dana, but I know you don't like that
    Giving reputation isn't always scratching a back! This is what bothers me--everyone else's pointless reputation makes my (intended to be) meaningful reputation get lost like a needle in a haystack.

    I would love to get a nice reputation comment from you if I inspire you.. inspiring others here and there is surprising to me and it makes me feel like I'm really a part of the forum.

    Dig?

  8. #48
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    you start somewhere- some people I keep a deeper chat going on with via PM- a real friendship I would say
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  9. #49
    Free-Rangin' Librarian Jae Rae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    This is probably my number one observation of the goings on here and how alliances form. Not that these alliances are evil or anything it's just they seem to be very superficial and you're right about the SFJish thing. This is how my coworker's act at work and then go swipe at each other when their backs are turned. And it's just so odd that as Fe dominant, this behavior is something I don't engage in, here or IRL (kinda grosses me out actually).
    This could be an SFJ thing, but given how few SFJs are on this forum and the incidence of this kind of exchange, it can't be just the SFJs who're doing it.


    Jae Rae
    Proud Female Rider in Maverick's Bike Club.

  10. #50
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Alliances form when members with lots of reputation "gift" n00bs or older members with a high rep. I think it forces, or rather creates unspoken reciprocity agreements between members forming an alliance. Commenting often in someone's blog is a good way of forming an alliance as well, no matter how trite the comment, just doing it works. But as far as blogs are concerned, it's nice when someone gives good feedback and commentary on something instead of a pat on the butt.
    I did notice the "rep" thing going on. (And I probably don't get much rep as some others because I don't give much out either -- mostly I use it as an pseudo-IM if anything.)

    The blog posting thing is very interesting to me. Often even if I don't have a lot to say content-wise, I will still acknowledge people's remarks and/or even go to their blog to respond to things... mostly because i am sending a "cue" that I care about them or that I appreciated their comment or that I am willing to reciprocate, i.e., the "good will" thing... It's mostly a "social cement" thing. I have also had a few times where, when i didn't respond to particular people (even just a quick word of "thanks") and I would answer other entries because I had some thoughts about them, my lack of response was taken negatively.

    It reminds me a little of the social conventions in China when we adopted our daughter. We were expected to give a rather cheap gift to people we encountered in the government agency we adopted her from, as we were finishing the paperwork; we were TOLD to bring this gift with us from the States. it could be soap, placemats, candy/chocolate, or whatnot...but if we did not give this gift, they would take it poorly.

    So there we are all waiting outside this little office, all of us adoptive families, each holding our little gift bag, and we each go in, and the man smiles, and we hand him the gift, and he nods and we nod and everyone smiles and he places it on the pile of all the OTHER goodies he got, and then we sign off on the papers and leave.

    Geez. honestly, most of the gifts were worth nothing.

    But that's just what it was. We had already paid thousands and thousands of dollars for this adoption to go through... and we still had to buy this silly gift, or people would get offended. Because that's how the culture worked.

    Same here too, in some ways. and in many social groups.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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