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  1. #41
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Jung said the order was to indicate which functions were most "conscious and confident" in the person, starting with the aptly named Dominant. Pretty much the same as "in order of strength etc."
    maybe so, but he only used system with just 2 set functions, INTP would be Ti Ne and rest inferior
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  2. #42
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    I noticed on the cognitive function tests, many INTPs showed more use of Fi than Fe, myself included. ReflecttcelfeR had some good ideas on this. Anyone want to contribute on why this might be? Eric B, do you have thoughts on this?
    The function order of INTP does show more use of Fi than Fe. It is as it should be.

    MBTI.
    Dichotomy of 9.
    INTP = Ti Ne Si Fe in a fourline with X removed.
    Ti = 1st function. Where is Fe? The 4th function? Not with the dichotomy of 9.
    There is no other dichotomy found for MBTI.
    The complementary party of Ti = Fe.
    9 - 1 = 8
    Fe = the 8th function. The end of the line.
    As said Fi = ahead of Fe.
    Where?
    7th function? No, because Ne = the 2nd.
    Si = the complementary party of Ne.
    9 - 2 = 7
    Si = the 7th function. Two functions do not occupy the same room.
    Fi is well ahead of Fe then.
    How well?
    Let us see.
    Ti + Fe = 9
    Te = the complementary party of Fi.
    Te + Fi = 9
    = the inverse constellation of Ti + Fe.
    Therefore Te = Fe - X
    and Fi = Ti + X
    Ni + Se = 9
    = the inverse constellation of Ne + Si:
    Se = Ne + X
    Ni = Si - X

    Apropos "the tertiary" of INTP:
    3 + X = Si.
    But we said it already.

  3. #43
    Senior Member burymecloser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    INTPs often have more Fi than Fe because function order/stacking is crap, and has no logical basis in personality. There are ENFPs who obviously use more Fe than Fi. There are ENTJs who obviously use more Ne than Ni. And pretty much all IxTJs use Ti and it's evident.

    Moral of the story is never get fundamental or rigid about function order, it's arbitrary. However the function descriptors themselves can be really useful.
    I'm not trying to shit on AJ, just trying to understand... but isn't this total crap?

    My understanding is that an ENFP who uses more Fe than Fi is not an ENFP at all. If we want to discuss strict function order or limited use of the shadow functions, that's one thing -- but if your secondary function is Fe, you're just not an ENFP, right? Mightn't that person be an ENTP in a Ne-Fe loop?

    Either I've completely misunderstood things, or that's just not what an ENFP is. It seems like a fundamental re-definition, like I point to a table, and someone says, "Oh no, you're mistaken. That's a chair. People sit on it sometimes." Like, someone who uses more Fe than Fi is not an ENFP, because ENFP definitionally means something else. Right?

    A year ago I didn't know anything about function theory, and there are lots of people on this forum who understand more about it than I do, but AJ's assertion flies in the face of everything I've learned. If anyone -- including AJ -- could straight-forwardly comment on how this works, I'd be most appreciative.

  4. #44
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burymecloser View Post
    I'm not trying to shit on AJ, just trying to understand... but isn't this total crap?

    My understanding is that an ENFP who uses more Fe than Fi is not an ENFP at all. If we want to discuss strict function order or limited use of the shadow functions, that's one thing -- but if your secondary function is Fe, you're just not an ENFP, right? Mightn't that person be an ENTP in a Ne-Fe loop?

    Either I've completely misunderstood things, or that's just not what an ENFP is. It seems like a fundamental re-definition, like I point to a table, and someone says, "Oh no, you're mistaken. That's a chair. People sit on it sometimes." Like, someone who uses more Fe than Fi is not an ENFP, because ENFP definitionally means something else. Right?

    A year ago I didn't know anything about function theory, and there are lots of people on this forum who understand more about it than I do, but AJ's assertion flies in the face of everything I've learned. If anyone -- including AJ -- could straight-forwardly comment on how this works, I'd be most appreciative.
    I say you're correct. The most definitive thing about a type is its dominant and auxiliary processes. If you change them, you've changed the type, plan and simple.
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  5. #45
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    I can answer this for you.

    You do not have 'more Fi' than 'Fe' however the active attitude differentiation on the tertiary is viewed as potentially being flippable/not very evident.

    One could say that you just see 'Ethics' from INTx's however, once you dig a big deeper you see more Fi pop out of the INTJ and more Fe pop out of the INTP.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    I can answer this for you.

    You do not have 'more Fi' than 'Fe' however the active attitude differentiation on the tertiary is viewed as potentially being flippable/not very evident.

    One could say that you just see 'Ethics' from INTx's however, once you dig a big deeper you see more Fi pop out of the INTJ and more Fe pop out of the INTP.
    To elaborate further. INTPs are emotionally inclined to want to use Ti as a primary differentiated process. Differentiation is when you can seperate a cognitive process from the pool of other cognitive processes. And therefore direct yourself according to this process. Since undifferentiated processes confuses you more since all processes are treated equally. So since Fe is tertiary it can never be as differentiated as Ti or even Ne, it will appear in an INTPs mind/surroundings through "the eyes" of the more differentiated functions. Which means that eventhough INTPs can be skilled at using Fe, it will appear to be something it is not, Fi. Because Ti influences Fe more than Fe influences Ti in an INTP.

  7. #47
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    are known as INFPs or INTJs.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by burymecloser View Post
    I'm not trying to shit on AJ, just trying to understand... but isn't this total crap?

    My understanding is that an ENFP who uses more Fe than Fi is not an ENFP at all. If we want to discuss strict function order or limited use of the shadow functions, that's one thing -- but if your secondary function is Fe, you're just not an ENFP, right? Mightn't that person be an ENTP in a Ne-Fe loop?

    Either I've completely misunderstood things, or that's just not what an ENFP is. It seems like a fundamental re-definition, like I point to a table, and someone says, "Oh no, you're mistaken. That's a chair. People sit on it sometimes." Like, someone who uses more Fe than Fi is not an ENFP, because ENFP definitionally means something else. Right?

    A year ago I didn't know anything about function theory, and there are lots of people on this forum who understand more about it than I do, but AJ's assertion flies in the face of everything I've learned. If anyone -- including AJ -- could straight-forwardly comment on how this works, I'd be most appreciative.
    An ENFP with Fe would be much easier to get along with, probably. Alas, that's fucking preposterous.

    GOD I HATE KEIRSEY.

    Blending Keirsey stereotypes with function theory is what yields this complete and utter fucking nonsense.

    An ENFP with more Fe is called an ENFJ.

    J doesn't mean "forceful" and P doesn't mean "passive."

  9. #49
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    are known as INFPs or INTJs.
    So someone with the ordering of Ti Ne ... Fi ... Fe fits the pattern of INFP or INTJ better than INTP? I don't get it. Is the dominant and auxillary just not as important as the order of the remaining 6? Or are you just trying to bring more INTPs over to the F side?

  10. #50
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    Haha...no.

    I just believe those functions tests are crap, and they tend to be skewed highly toward both Ni and Fi, even if those aren't your functions.

    I found through really studying Jung, as opposed to MBTI or Keirsey, and with some discussion, that it became crystal clear that not only are my judging functions Fi/Te, but that I perceive with Ne/Si.

    People say that function order isn't real, and I thought that at one time myself, but when you actually look at them in pairs and what they do, it becomes evident that you have Fi/Te OR Ti/Fe and Ne/Si OR Ni/Se...you will prefer actual pairs of these functions.

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