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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I definitely agree with you w/r to "strict function order." I think the ordering is OK if one doesn't define ordering as "in order of strength/skill/cognizance". I think there are plenty of people whose auxiliary is there, but disfavored, e.g., a very Ti-ish INFJ shows lots of Ni, and is very Ti-logical, but the Te or Fe rarely seems to appear. That is to say, ordering can help define the overall type in such a way to point out areas for growth. But no, the ordering doesn't tell you which function is "strongest" or "weakest".
    This and your previosu statement make me qestion whether you even use Ti or an introverted Te or understand the quality of Ti that a Ti person would. I like the way you phrased Ti-Logical with a qualifier. Would be like me being an Fi-Feeler. It adds a detachment or what you refer to as lack of quality.

    edit: this is meant from a strictly Ti stand point and not an attack.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabula View Post
    I can't speak on whether or not you all actually DO have more Fi than Fe, but here's what I think anyway.

    Fe is *conscious, Fi *isn't. Ti being *directly opposed to Fe, it makes sense that the INTP would be consciously AWARE of Fe, and more than that, AWARE of his or her own limitations, (or at least "distaste") in that regard. Fi *"operating" much like Ti, at least superficially, would seem more comfortable to the Ti-dom, and having that as an *unconscious function, would already place it in the "ill-defined by the psyche" category - leaving it more apt to be confused with their Ti on the basis of a similar "structure."

    "Fe. I know exactly what they're talking about, and I KNOW I don't do that" verses "Evaluate what is worth believing in and most important to who you really are inside" - appealing to the INTP's independence and want to "think for himself," too. I don't see why a typical [?], younger [?], especially introverted, or VERY T-ish INTP wouldn't score higher on Fi than Fe, assuming any of this makes any sense at all.

    It probably doesn't help that the Fe descriptions are written more for a hypothetical Fe dom or aux, or at least someone that would be "proficient" at it - not a Ti-dom with his ego built and placed in *direct opposition to it.

    There should be a flow chart-like format for CP tests, or one with options that also give descriptions of the more "negative" (<- not the right word) manifestations (<- not the right word) of each process, I think. That creates different problems, of course, and it would be much harder to give accurate definitions, but I think it could be done. Just not by me, obviously.

    * SUPPOSEDLY!
    I agree with this. IXTPs are aware enough of Fe to be like, "that's definitely not me," whereas they fundamentally do not understand Fi enough, are not aware enough of it, to even recognize that they don't have it.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I agree with this. IXTPs are aware enough of Fe to be like, "that's definitely not me," whereas they fundamentally do not understand Fi enough, are not aware enough of it, to even recognize that they don't have it.
    Yeah, might be onto something there. Often the Fe questions take on this self-sacrificing hostess flavor. No thank you!
    Yet it is pretty clear I have more Fe than Fi. Despite the tests.

    And strict function ordering is crap.

  4. #24
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    This and your previosu statement make me qestion whether you even use Ti or an introverted Te or understand the quality of Ti that a Ti person would. I like the way you phrased Ti-Logical with a qualifier. Would be like me being an Fi-Feeler. It adds a detachment or what you refer to as lack of quality.

    edit: this is meant from a strictly Ti stand point and not an attack.
    Actually, I say "Ti-logical" to point out the aspect of Ti I see in that example case, and to differentiate that logic from the Te-logical style. More generally, Ti looks for systematic self-consistency. Logic is usual metric, but not the only metric, to judge the system. Similar, I would differentiate Fi-feelings from Fi in general. Fi at its finest is beyond feelings. Ti at its finest is beyond logic. So, not "lack of quality" but rather "a quality of".
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Fi at its finest is beyond feelings. Ti at its finest is beyond logic. So, not "lack of quality" but rather "a quality of".
    Can you plse expand on this? This is interesting.

  6. #26
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Can you plse expand on this? This is interesting.
    Fi doesn't merely feel, it knows what feelings are, what they mean, how it fits in with everything, and can easily spot feelings that "don't fit."

    Ti isn't logical, but rather it knows what logic is, how logic is relevant and fits in with respect to an entire system, and can easily spot "logic" that "doesn't fit."
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Fi doesn't merely feel, it knows what feelings are, what they mean, how it fits in with everything, and can easily spot feelings that "don't fit."

    Ti isn't logical, but rather it knows what logic is, how logic is relevant and fits in with respect to an entire system, and can easily spot "logic" that "doesn't fit."
    To define Ti as logic is just as inaccruate(to shallow) as it is to define Fi as feeling. Though thats how its best recognized by its extroverted equivalent.

  8. #28
    Senior Member copperfish17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Yeah, might be onto something there. Often the Fe questions take on this self-sacrificing hostess flavor. No thank you!
    Yet it is pretty clear I have more Fe than Fi. Despite the tests.

    And strict function ordering is crap.
    This.

    I used to think I had more Fi than Fe... that is, until I read through a couple of Fi VS Fe threads on this forum. Then it became pretty clear that I preferred Ti-Fe over Te-Fi. Relating to Te-Fi viewpoints does prove difficult to me more often than not.
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  9. #29
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    Yeah, I'll just echo what's been said eloquently by so many others. The questions for Fi are definitely worded to appeal to any introverted, independent person. I know it's a Fi question when I'm answering it, and I'm torn because I feel like I don' t know if it's really Fi, or if I'm just interpreting it and relating to it in a different way than an actual Fi-user would. I'm far too aware of which question measures what when I take those tests to feel they are accurate. I have some sort of baby-Fi in there somewhere, and of course I have values that I consult, but I'm also very aware of group dynamics, of empathizing from different perspectives, of sometimes letting my own desires go for the good of the group. I just don't innately relate to the dom/aux perspective at all. Fe is definitely, definitely stronger for me.

    Of course, we have to factor in upbringing, as well. I know I was raised in a very Fe environment (religion, small town, Southern, parents were all factors). I couldn't NOT develop Fe. Jennifer's spoken about similar experiences, as well. I think it's part of the reason we vibe similarly sometimes. But even though we're not hardcore, robot INTPs, nor could we be mistaken for INFPs. It's INTP with a stronger Fe flavor than some, and probably a bit more developed Fi from being old enough to have realized what's important to us personally and what we won't compromise on. As far as INTPs with high Fi, or stronger Fi than Fe, I think I'd have to agree that it's probably more like a flavor of Ti and some rebellion against what they perceive to be Fe-groupthink, or against being told what to do. The INTPs here that identify strongly with Fi, still feel like INTPs to me. They might have their own unique style within their INTPness (ala Salome), but it's still very much Ti that I feel from them. Just musing here.

    Are people saying that the stacking is BS, or would the Fi replace Fe in an INTP's stacking? I know any Fi an INTP would have couldn't be one of their most-used functions. It would HAVE to change the typing, wouldn't it?
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  10. #30
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Are people saying that the stacking is BS, or would the Fi replace Fe in an INTP's stacking? I know any Fi an INTP would have couldn't be one of their most-used functions. It would HAVE to change the typing, wouldn't it?
    I will stipulate that INTPs and Ti-doms, in theory, can "use Fi." I will assert, however, that "using Fi" is mutually exclusive with "using Ti." Jennifer's metaphor is apt: you're either judging in black and white (metaphorically Ti and logical terms) or color (metaphorically Fi feeling terms), but not both. Similarly, Ni precludes Si, Te precludes Fe, Ne precludes Se. Otherwise, in my opinion, the functions can be used in parallel. So a Ti-dom using Fi in a conscious way is quite remarkable, and not impossible, but is not, for the moment, processing things like a Ti-dom normally would.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

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