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  1. #81
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    In English, please.
    The meaning is crystal.

    See things for what they are, rather than how they affect you.

  2. #82
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    You hate people who don't understand you and don't accept you. You hate them for their judgements cast in your direction.

    You're doing the same thing to them. It's rather self-fulfilling.

    (assuming you're being honest in this thread and aren't writing a bunch of stuff just for the sake of argument that you don't even personally believe)
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  3. #83
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    to put it in the bluntest terms- racists are ignorant jackasses who look at people by thier skin color or national origin instead of finding a good reason to like or dislike someone- they're shallow, incurious and closing themselves off to a miserable life of mistrust and paranoia

    now quit playing devil's advocate
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #84
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    In such a broad question as whether or not hatred is useful or poisonous, the only truth you're ever going to get to is subjective.
    well all truth is subjective. so should we just disregard it?

    anyways, i was trying to frame "useful" in a way that you'd understand. useful, the way i'm saying it, means useful to YOU. do the pros outweigh the cons? if so, it's useful.

    and i think that hate is never "useful". active, passionate dislike is pointless. if you don't like something, accept the situation for what it is and strategize on how to make it better. sitting there hating the situation is NOT strategically useful.

    you don't like something? change it. you don't want to change it? change your opinion of it.

    name me a better strategy than that.

  5. #85
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    I thought seeing things as they affect me is personal identity.

    I personally don't care what color people are, but what does being a racist have to do with "self-pity and pain?" This has never made sense to me and sounds like a dime store romance novel.
    Best of luck, Uber.

    I sincerely mean that: I like you and I suspect your vitriol is an awkwardly-positioned disguise intended to buffer against bygone agony.

    Over the years, I'm confident that it will lose its meaning as your pain subsides.


    Personal identity is about far more than the individual.

  6. #86
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    and i think that hate is never "useful". active, passionate dislike is pointless. if you don't like something, accept the situation for what it is and strategize on how to make it better. sitting there hating the situation is NOT strategically useful.

    you don't like something? change it. you don't want to change it? change your opinion of it.
    Yep, this is how I tend to view things too.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
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  7. #87
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    The meaning is crystal.

    See things for what they are, rather than how they affect you.
    (that's very anti Fi)

    i don't agree. you need to know how things affect you in order to change your situation in a way that positively affects you.

    otherwise, you sit there intellectualizing -- a passive observer of your own life. i've been down that path; it sucks.

    edit: of course, you have to see things for what they are too.

  8. #88
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Let's imagine a hypothetical situation in which a white American neighborhood sees a rise in Mexicans moving into the neighborhood. In principle, do you not think the whites of that neighborhood should have the right to defend their establishment from outsiders?

    This is what happens when foreigners move in, your culture is at stake. And I'm not saying that I'm interested in driving away the outsiders (I'm playing Devil's Advocate), but why is it so wrong for someone who values their heritage to preserve their culture? Incoming outsiders are pretty much an invasion of that.

    To narrow it down even more, a stranger comes barging into your house, do you not have any right to defend yourself?
    You are attempting to twist logic here... please define HATRED for me.

    Defending yourself... defending what's yours does not require hatred. Hatred is an extreme form of anger. You can defend without that.

    Survival of the fittest. Defending your land or culture against invaders... all you need is exclusion. No need to hate. It's human nature to dislike and to some degrees hate. But hate is not the only thing that prompts you to act.

    Your first two examples do not fly very well for me even though I understand the feelings involved. Take the last, a stranger coming into my house. I will defend myself, my family, home, property. I wouldn't hate the guy though... anger but not hate. Unless they hurt or kill my family. But in this case they started with violence... so I suppose I have cause for hate... as impulses would be difficult to control.

  9. #89
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    You are attempting to twist logic here... please define HATRED for me.

    Defending yourself... defending what's yours does not require hatred. Hatred is an extreme form of anger. You can defend without that.

    Survival of the fittest. Defending your land or culture against invaders... all you need is exclusion. No need to hate. It's human nature to dislike and to some degrees hate. But hate is not the only thing that prompts you to act.
    true.

    Unless they hurt or kill my family. But in this case they started with violence... so I suppose I have cause for hate... as impulses would be difficult to control.
    yeah, and even then, your hate wouldn't be useful. it would just BE.

  10. #90
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    in my opinion, hate is what results when something violates your principles to such a great extent that deep, passionate feelings far beyond distaste (which can be ignored) are felt.

    a lot of people confuse anger with hate, but i think anger is just sadness (discontent with something) mixed with aggression (resulting from intensified frustration) the frustration/aggression usually results from the inability (perceived or not) to resolve that which someone is discontent with. people who have issues that they are never able to resolve usually become frustrated with themselves and thus tend to relate to the world in an angry way (seen as angry by other people) and are often bitter in the sense that are likely to blame their adverse life situation on someone other than themselves.

    this is the difference between people who display hate on occasion and people who happen to display hate quite a bit (not naming names)... one is legitimately based in passionate dislike of something, the other is simply a result of someone disliking themselves and thus relating to the world most easily in that manner.

    anyways, people often display anger towards things they hate but the two are not synonymous. it starts with passionate feelings of dislike, often which can implicate things that someone finds sad, lastly capped off by an inability to resolve whatever the subject of hate is, and that is how people often display hate (through anger). this is why i would say that although there are definitely things i hate, im not someone who often finds myself frustrated, and as an extension of that, angered by things.

    take serial killings... the reason for dislike is obvious, the implications are sad, and lastly there is nothing you or I can really do to stop it. serial murder is something i hate, and that i would feel visibly angry about if it weren't for the fact that i realize banging my head against the wall doesn't benefit anyone, and certainly not myself.

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