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  1. #91
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    For most who hate, it is less about the target and more about how they've been targeted.

    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    (that's very anti Fi)
    Still think I'm an NF?

  2. #92
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    For most who hate, it is less about the target and more about how they've been targeted.
    i agree. i see the point you were trying to make now.

    but you still have to be aware of how you're affected in order to change things and act more rationally. if you feel yourself hating something, you must explore WHY. why are you so affected that you HATE? how exactly were you affected? you must know these things in order to change your behavioral patterns.

    Still think I'm an NF?
    hellz yeah. each post of yours i read makes me more sure you're INFJ. with very strong Ti of course. you = older (i think), more eloquent me.

  3. #93
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    but you still have to be aware of how you're affected in order to change things and act more rationally. if you feel yourself hating something, you must explore WHY. why are you so affected that you HATE? how exactly were you affected? you must know these things in order to change your behavioral patterns.
    although i dont think hate is "wrong", i do think that in and of itself it is unimportant. it's more of a symptom... correspondingly strong to the severity of what provoked it.

    there are two possible foundations to feeling hatred, legitimate and illegitimate. i say, acknowledge the feeling, move past it, then consider the source objectively and respond accordingly. if the source is illegitimate, learn what you can about why your response was unreasonable, if it is legitimate, find what you can do to resolve what initially provoked you. past those two directives, i see no benefit to dwelling on feelings of hatred.

  4. #94
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    although i dont think hate is "wrong", i do think that in and of itself it is unimportant. it's more of a symptom... correspondingly strong to the severity of what provoked it.

    there are two possible foundations to feeling hatred, legitimate and illegitimate. i say, acknowledge the feeling, move past it, then consider the source objectively and respond accordingly. if the source is illegitimate, learn what you can about why your response was unreasonable, if it is legitimate, find what you can do to resolve what initially provoked you. past those two directives, i see no benefit to dwelling on feelings of hatred.
    i agree.

    i never said hate was wrong, btw. it's a part of life. i just think it serves no strategic purpose, ever.

    well, i take that back. i guess it would be strategic to hate if people are expecting you to, and would think less of you if you didn't for some reason.

  5. #95
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    For most who hate, it is less about the target and more about how they've been targeted.
    A random thought... How is hatred and fear related?

    It seems to me like we hate what we fear. We hate unjust actions because we fear it happening to us, to those we care about.

    Oh right... hate is to fear... hate is just an emotion just as fear is just another emotion. Asking if hatred is useful or poisonous is like asking if fear is useful or debilitating. It can be both... depending on the extent and how you deal with it.

  6. #96
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    i agree.

    i never said hate was wrong, btw. it's a part of life. i just think it serves no strategic purpose, ever.

    well, i take that back. i guess it would be strategic to hate if people are expecting you to, and would think less of you if you didn't for some reason.
    i dont participate in the statement/response form of discussion. i gather what information i can about what someone is saying and offer a relating piece of the bigger puzzle. if i disagree with something then i generally address it specifically, otherwise i tend speculate without necessarily directing it at or in response to anyone.

    as for pretending to hate just to conform, i say display your higher understanding of things as an example for other people to follow

  7. #97
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    A random thought... How is hatred and fear related?

    It seems to me like we hate what we fear. We hate unjust actions because we fear it happening to us, to those we care about.

    Oh right... hate is to fear... hate is just an emotion just as fear is just another emotion. Asking if hatred is useful or poisonous is like asking if fear is useful or debilitating. It can be both... depending on the extent and how you deal with it.
    Fear is a conditioned response to negative stimuli in our environment - those that would cause us harm, immediate or otherwise.

    Hate is a multiplicity of negative emotions cooperating into a composite behavior.

    Hate and fear are interrelated in this way - taken to a deeper premise, I'd further wager that they are transient emotional states intended (fundamentally) to bolster survival.

    Hate is a frustration; a perversion of one's prerogative to master the unknown.

  8. #98
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    A random thought... How is hatred and fear related?

    It seems to me like we hate what we fear. We hate unjust actions because we fear it happening to us, to those we care about.

    Oh right... hate is to fear... hate is just an emotion just as fear is just another emotion. Asking if hatred is useful or poisonous is like asking if fear is useful or debilitating. It can be both... depending on the extent and how you deal with it.
    to relate fear to my thoughts on this, i would say fear is a founder for discontent. fear > discontent (sadness) > frustration/aggression (anger). therefore, i would place hate in the same "_____" as fear even though i dont think the two are directly related.

    ex.

    a man sees another man who is of a superior physique and gets angry at him. he might even be inclined to say he "hates" him, but this is really just a misinterpretation of his anger.

    fear of inadequacy driving discontent with one's level of adequacy, met with tangible, indisputable evidence of [what that person considers to be] their inadequacy which leads to frustration of their inability (although in this case it's merely perceived that way) to resolve... if this "inability attitude" has been happening for a long time, then they would consequently feel more deeply frustrated to the point where it becomes anger

    frustration is a result of one's inability to effect change. this is obvious when someone is trying to work on some sort of project and things dont "go their way"... they become frustrated, angry, and often times display bitterness by blaming something ("whoever wrote these instructions is a fucking moron!!!")


    it's confusing because anger can result from fear or hatred, or other things, and often times anger is equated to hatred. it's also possible to hate (although not legitimately) something out of fear of it. fear of inadequacy in some way might even lead someone to hate themselves...

  9. #99
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Hate is a multiplicity of negative emotions cooperating into a composite behavior.
    Hmmm right right... 5 basic emotions which mix together to form hundreds of other emotions. I've forgotten my lessons... thank you for the reminder.

    They say ultimately all emotions exists to bolster survival. Emotions to guide approach and avoidance expressions to facilitate communication. Emotions prompt actions.

    Hate is a frustration; a perversion of one's prerogative to master the unknown.
    Perhaps...

  10. #100
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Hate and fear are interrelated in this way - taken to a deeper premise, I'd further wager that they are transient emotional states intended (fundamentally) to bolster survival.
    how does merely identifying something you passionately dislike help you survive? hate is a symptom, and fear is a motivator. fear is tied to survival, but the two arent necessarily going to result in the symptom of hatred.

    i hate the behavior of serial murder because it is removing the only real asset someone has for intrinsically unnecessary reasons, not because i fear for my survival.

    i strongly dislike and might even be inclined to casually say i hate sharp objects that are turned up in the general direction of my face and torso because i recognize that possibility for me to trip at any time without warning (as it has happened in the past) and impale myself on said sharp object.

    i think ultimately everything does boils down to being either motivated by fleeing from what you fear or pursuing what makes you happy/love, and hate can potentially be founded in the latter... basically what i consider legitimate hatred.

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