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  1. #11
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    I don't know, is pleasure a feeling?
    Do you feel pleased?

  2. #12
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeru View Post
    Life is subjective.
    You mean, when a doctor pronounces someone dead, it's subjective? There is no objective difference between a living person and a dead body? No objective difference in status?

    I don't buy that.

  3. #13
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    You mean, when a doctor pronounces someone dead, it's subjective? There is no objective difference between a living person and a dead body? No objective difference in status?

    I don't buy that.
    It's not either or. Biological death is objective, what it means to you is subjective. Is it Hitler or your Mom?

  4. #14
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    Death can have an infinity of subjective meanings, but only one objective meaning.

  5. #15
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    It's not either or. Biological death is objective, what it means to you is subjective. Is it Hitler or your Mom?
    That wasn't the statement, though. Whether it's Hitler or my Mom, we can say objectively whether the person is dead or not.

    And of course, how you feel about the death of Hitler would be subjective. A lot of Germans were probably upset when he died, even though the Allies were happy. The most obvious difference between the subjective and the objective, is that everyone tends to share the same objective perceptions. They're not negotiable/debatable. But the subjective ones differ between groups, and sometimes even individuals.

  6. #16
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    That wasn't the statement, though. Whether it's Hitler or my Mom, we can say objectively whether the person is dead or not.

    And of course, how you feel about the death of Hitler would be subjective. A lot of Germans were probably upset when he died, even though the Allies were happy. The most obvious difference between the subjective and the objective, is that everyone tends to share the same objective perceptions. They're not negotiable/debatable. But the subjective ones differ between groups, and sometimes even individuals.
    Yup, I agree with you. But in the end, it's all ego-centric, subjective. Objectively things happen, subjectively we care or don't care.

  7. #17
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    2 people looking at a glass of water, one sees it's half empty side, one sees the half full side

  8. #18
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Or trees falling in the forest.

  9. #19
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    Yup, I agree with you. But in the end, it's all ego-centric, subjective. Objectively things happen, subjectively we care or don't care.
    That's true. But I think that some people are better at noticing the difference between what is actually happening objectively, and the way caring about it or not caring about it makes it seem subjectively. And this awareness can make life much more complicated, leading to a tendency towards over-analysis and dissatisfaction.

    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    2 people looking at a glass of water, one sees it's half empty side, one sees the half full side
    But both of them could agree that the glass is holding an amount of water equal to 50% of its capacity. And they could both determine exactly how much water is in the glass, if they choose.

    Although that's a far less interesting question, isn't it?

  10. #20
    Senor Membrane
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    I think that everything's subjective means that we choose the things we see of the objective world. Of course when we are clearly looking at the same thing, it is highly probable that we see it in a same way, but still, we can't know that. How could we tell if my perception of green is not slightly different from your perception? To me it seems like objectivity is invented, while subjectivity is the only way we see the world.

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