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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    If you want to study the subject, I would recommend Erich Fromm, Alan Watts, Kazimierz Dabrowski, Victor Frankl, and well, obviously some of the eastern classics, like Tao Te Ching, I Ching, Art of War. Also, Carl Rogers seems to be talking about the same stuff, but I find him really boring compared to Fromm and Maslow, who both are very inspirational.
    Yeah, I have soft spots for Fromm and Frankl. Menninger I think was another one.

    On a side note, Allen Wheelis (he was actually a psychiatrist by trade) is an ITP, his views are more rational and less laden with F words... kind of stark at times, but his book "How People Change" was very rational to me.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    Senor Membrane
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    Yeah, I had read that when I was looking into it later on. Eventually I had looked at 'mystic' philosophies and it was striking how much they resembled each other: Buddhism, Kaballah, Sufism. They all pointed to things, showed you how to get there, but refused to explain them because words were insufficient.
    Oh yeah, forgot to mention Aldous Huxley's "Perennial Philosophy" is a great place to start when trying to connect the dots between (mystic) religions. That book is probably the best about the subject. It is a bit too religious for my taste, but still, it's fantastic! He goes through the religions by quotes and kinda ties it up in a package by commenting in between.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yeah, I have soft spots for Fromm and Frankl. Menninger I think was another one.

    On a side note, Allen Wheelis (he was actually a psychiatrist by trade) is an ITP, his views are more rational and less laden with F words... kind of stark at times, but his book "How People Change" was very rational to me.
    Thanks! I'll check them out for sure.

  3. #13
    ThatGirl
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    Sorry, tried to watch the video, but she speaks soooooooooo slow.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Oh yeah, forgot to mention Aldous Huxley's "Perennial Philosophy" is a great place to start when trying to connect the dots between (mystic) religions. That book is probably the best about the subject. It is a bit too religious for my taste, but still, it's fantastic! He goes through the religions by quotes and kinda ties it up in a package by commenting in between.



    Thanks! I'll check them out for sure.
    It's definitely jumping form the "third force" of psychology, humanistic psychology, into the "fourth force" of psychology, transpersonal psychology, but Ken Wilber often mentions Huston Smith as one of his inspirations/influences, and Smith talked a lot about the already-mentioned "perennial philosophy", which dealt with the cross-cultural similarities in the mystical aspects of most/all major, and many not so major, world religions. Especially in his earlier works, Wilber references psychology research by lots of famous developmental psychologists, many of whom I would imagine could be viewed as humanistic psychologists.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    Sorry, tried to watch the video, but she speaks soooooooooo slow.
    Yeah she was a bit irritating.

    The info. was alright though I guess.
    "To find beauty in loss, hope in darkness."

  6. #16
    ThatGirl
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    Alright I forced myself to watch that retarded video. I had to pretend I was sitting in a group of children though.

    Anyway. Did she say that self actualized people are bipolar manic?

    Now I am conflicted.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post


    Yeah, all this describes my experiences, except the drug part.

    In the weeks after my first and most powerful experience, I: converted to Christianity, had seemingly precognitive visions and 'magical powers'.

    After everything settled down, I had studied enough Xtian theology to decide it wasn't for me (sorry Lark). Decided my magical powers were indistinguishable from being able to better work with my subconscious. The procog is still interesting but anectodal and pretty useless to me on the practical and philosophical level.

    But even after all this I had known that something had changed in me for the positive.

    Anyway, looking forward to studying this.
    I'm unsure if I know what Xtian theology is, so far as conversion to Christianity goes, I'm really unsure if I would recommend it to people, at least not when they feel the first impulse or interest in it. Although my beliefs are complex, not mere Christianity, and I find little in the modern church or the dreams of the conservative religious or laity which corresponds to my own personal faith.

    Peak experiences I dont think are just religious in character, they can be existential, the question of trauma and resilience is an interesting one and perhaps it is a phenomenological spin on actually being traumatised and recovering from it, the idea of needing to break down to break through isnt exclusive to the humanistic psychologists survey of religious experiences, there are plenty of Jungian or even AA discussions of spiritual malaise which have taken up the idea too. Karl Jaspers, an existential philosopher if I remember right, wrote about people needing to test themselves in threatening situations to push forward their personal development, I remember reading him when I under went some traumatic pressure and before that when I was into caving and pot holing.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    Yeah, I had read that when I was looking into it later on. Eventually I had looked at 'mystic' philosophies and it was striking how much they resembled each other: Buddhism, Kaballah, Sufism. They all pointed to things, showed you how to get there, but refused to explain them because words were insufficient.
    I've been interested in Sufism, although I dont really find it similar to the mystics of the other two schools of thought and I do tend to find a lot of the medieval and Christian mystics to be key in my own thinking and spirituality.

  9. #19
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm unsure if I know what Xtian theology is, so far as conversion to Christianity goes, I'm really unsure if I would recommend it to people, at least not when they feel the first impulse or interest in it. Although my beliefs are complex, not mere Christianity, and I find little in the modern church or the dreams of the conservative religious or laity which corresponds to my own personal faith.
    Do you object to me classifying a huge tradition of religions under one group, or on my abbreviation? My biggest objection to Christianity is the idea of original sin.. but that discussion doesn't belong here.

    From what I've read, the Islam/Jewish/Christian mystic traditions have always struggled with gaining a place of legitimacy in their respective religion. There always seems to be a schism between the thoughtfully faithful and the policy makers.

    Peak experiences I dont think are just religious in character, they can be existential, the question of trauma and resilience is an interesting one and perhaps it is a phenomenological spin on actually being traumatised and recovering from it, the idea of needing to break down to break through isnt exclusive to the humanistic psychologists survey of religious experiences, there are plenty of Jungian or even AA discussions of spiritual malaise which have taken up the idea too. Karl Jaspers, an existential philosopher if I remember right, wrote about people needing to test themselves in threatening situations to push forward their personal development, I remember reading him when I under went some traumatic pressure and before that when I was into caving and pot holing.
    From experience, I definitely agree with this, it makes complete sense that a person can't become more than himself without undoing part of what they already are.

    I understand religion as meaning to be all encompassing: everything a person needs to know to be a person wrapped in an easy (or not so easy) to digest metaphor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I've been interested in Sufism, although I dont really find it similar to the mystics of the other two schools of thought and I do tend to find a lot of the medieval and Christian mystics to be key in my own thinking and spirituality.
    I don't know a ton about Sufism, so I can't argue on this one. I know more about Kabbalah, and some about Buddhism. To tell you the truth all my knowledge is very specific to the areas that I have had personal questions about, I've never actually made a comprehensive study on either of them.

  10. #20
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    From what I've read, the Islam/Jewish/Christian mystic traditions have always struggled with gaining a place of legitimacy in their respective religion. There always seems to be a schism between the thoughtfully faithful and the policy makers.
    What seems to happen is that the mystics are revered as long as they're at a distance (people seem to want to have this passionate, supernatural style faith), but when a policy-maker experiences a mystic face to face, they typically have a negative reaction and/or wants to clamp down on the ambiguity. Mystics don't have walls, they're just listening to something beyond audible hearing.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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