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  1. #111
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    There are many historical myths that get passed on as fact in all cultures.

    Another thing, if you are researching your ancestry, remember it is YOUR ancestry, not just someone's current culture. They are related, but not identical. No one owns the past more based on geographical location.
    No one objects to you actually educating yourself. It's the way you tend to just show up and act like you own the place that fucks people off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Yes, no nation or culture is immune to this. Ignorance of history isn't just an American thing.
    This is totally accurate though. Despite the disclaimer.

    [YOUTUBE="Ba0oLONyxEE"]1776[/YOUTUBE].

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salome View Post
    No one objects to you actually educating yourself. It's the way you tend to just show up and act like you own the place that fucks people off.
    Americans don't travel! Must be Canucks.

  4. #114
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salome View Post
    It's the way you tend to just show up and act like you own the place that fucks people off.
    Yes, this is what we in the international education field call "The Ugly American." It's definitely a stereotype, but unfortunately, like many stereotypes, there are some people it is true about. We try very hard to educate our students about how to behave respectfully and humbly abroad, but they don't all get it. Personally I never had a problem with it - being an introvert helps, since I don't tend to talk loudly or hang out in big groups anyway, and certainly would never lecture anyone about their own culture. (While studying in France, I was able to pass for French most of the time. Until I said something, of course, at which time my accent gave me away. But I had several people obviously mistake me as a native before I spoke!)
    Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.

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  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    This is totally accurate though. Despite the disclaimer.

    [YOUTUBE="Ba0oLONyxEE"]1776[/YOUTUBE].
    Indeed. Meanwhile in France:
    [youtube="GZxY1J69WsQ"]The first air balloon flight[/youtube]

  6. #116
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquarelle99 View Post
    Yes, this is what we in the international education field call "The Ugly American." It's definitely a stereotype, but unfortunately, like many stereotypes, there are some people it is true about. We try very hard to educate our students about how to behave respectfully and humbly abroad, but they don't all get it. Personally I never had a problem with it - being an introvert helps, since I don't tend to talk loudly or hang out in big groups anyway, and certainly would never lecture anyone about their own culture. (While studying in France, I was able to pass for French most of the time. Until I said something, of course, at which time my accent gave me away. But I had several people obviously mistake me as a native before I spoke!)
    A stereotype it is indeed. I have heard many 'Ugly American" stories but have yet to experience it to any significant degree first hand. I don't doubt that such behaviour exists but only that it had been exaggerated in it frequency and severity. Most of the Americans I've spent time with (both here and overseas) are actually the complete opposite of this stereotype and it upsets me to see my friends unfairly lumped into such a category. :rolli:

    Anyway, back OT.

    I think genealogy is rather interesting an certainly understand why Americans have taken to it. There is nothing wrong with embracing your history. I do think it can be a little comical when people claim their distant ancestry as being one of the most defining features of themselves. It just makes me think of Tess's father in Tess of the d'Urbervilles...

    I must say though, that New Zealanders have been guilty of this in the past. Back in the day, my grandparents generation would talk about "returning to the motherland" (ie. England), in spite of the fact that they weren't remotely English and had never set foot in the place. Lucky this silly pretension has ceased to continue.
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  7. #117
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southerncross
    A stereotype it is indeed.
    It's not just a stereotype. I've met some fucking ugly Americans.
    I must say though, that New Zealanders have been guilty of this in the past. Back in the day, my grandparents generation would talk about "returning to the motherland" (ie. England), in spite of the fact that they weren't remotely English and had never set foot in the place. Lucky this silly pretension has ceased to continue.
    It's called cultural cringe.Though whether that relates to the "parent" culture or the "child" culture, isn't clear...

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    No one owns the past more based on geographical location.
    It's not unsurprising that a nation of colonizers would have that attitude...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquarelle99 View Post
    Again, you're misunderstanding what it means when an American says "I'm Scottish" or whatever. I won't repeat myself; you can read my several posts to the same effect above.
    But you asked us how we feel and now you're telling us we're wrong. Reminds me of that Mark Twain quote: "In Paris they just simply opened their eyes and stared when we spoke to them in French! We never did succeed in making those idiots understand their own language."
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #118
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salome View Post
    It's not just a stereotype. I've met some fucking ugly Americans.

    It's called cultural cringe.Though whether that relates to the "parent" culture or the "child" culture, isn't clear...
    I don't doubt your experiences. I have heard some rather nasty stories from both my Mum and sister who have been treated like dirt by American tourists. Stereotypes frequently have an element of truth in them, however they will always remain a generalisation and thus, not to be relied upon - this is what I meant to say.

    Oh, I know all about cultural cringe. Its practically required learning for Arts students in NZ. We are so very self-conscious of our extreme inferiority complex - perhaps more than any other westernised, colonial nation
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  9. #119
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I don't doubt your experiences. I have heard some rather nasty stories from both my Mum and sister who have been treated like dirt by American tourists. Stereotypes frequently have an element of truth in them, however they will always remain a generalisation and thus, not to be relied upon - this is what I meant to say.
    I'm joking. Mostly.

    Oh, I know all about cultural cringe. Its practically required learning for Arts students in NZ. We are so very self-conscious of our extreme inferiority complex - perhaps more than any other westernised, colonial nation
    That makes no sense to me. And it's not an impression I picked up at all when I was there, but then, I suppose I wasn't looking for it. How can you have an inferiority complex when you live in the most beautiful place on the planet?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #120
    Senior Member Adasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salome View Post
    How can you have an inferiority complex when you live in the most beautiful place on the planet?
    This is generally my feeling, too. Kiwis seem rather laid-back and not as in-your-face as some (and I stress some) ex-pat Australians.

    Also, on the point of Americans being lectured about culture. It'd be far more useful if these lectures about history tended to explore both sides of the argument, rather than just how "the Americans won". Most Americans' knowledge of the Second World War begins at Pearl Harbor, for example. So many, many Americans like to point out how "America won the War of Independence". I mean, it's technically inaccurate to say that since the conflict was a civil war, but I'm happy to talk about it since it was a great triumph for the people to throw off the imperial yoke.

    The sense I get is that things are terribly hyped-up on the American side. Either everything is "awesome" about the "original" culture, or the people there are stuck up and condescending. Surely there's some middle ground?
    That girls are raped, that two boys knife a third,
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