User Tag List

First 910111213 Last

Results 101 to 110 of 158

  1. #101
    Senior Member Adasta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    394

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I suppose if all you know about the US is through TV & Hollywood movies, then sure.
    I suppose if all you know about advertising is "TV & Hollywood", then sure. You speak about condescension; I'm not merely a passive observer of America. I have in fact been there, several times as well as knowing many Americans.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    But that's NOT what it is. It's just a mere recognition of one's personal history & what influence it has had on your family & local culture.
    Again, you're conflating two things. Recognising one's ancestry is one thing but explicitly aligning oneself with it is entirely another.



    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Identifying your heritage & noting a few small similarities between those of similar heritage is a far cry from what you're implying. I think you're the on blowing it out of proportion.
    Only because you've inferred something different to what I had originally said.



    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Frankly, the tone of your posts imply that a strongly condescending attitude.
    Pot, meet kettle.



    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    It feels the same in reverse; the need to criticize cultural quirks of Americans seems to stem from some insecurity...
    I'd be intrigued by an explication of your analysis.
    That girls are raped, that two boys knife a third,
    Were axioms to him, who'd never heard
    Of any world where promises were kept,
    Or one could weep because another wept.

  2. #102
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquarelle99 View Post
    I'm curious how you all feel about the fact that Americans of European descent hold on to their immigrant ancestry even many generations later, and even if their parents didn't raise them practicing any customs or traditions from that culture. It's not uncommon in the States to be asked, "What are you?" (meaning where did your ancestors come from) and I've always thought this probably seems kind of strange to other people in the world.
    Yes, we think it’s strange. Also irritating.

    When an American tells me he’s Scottish, or worse, "Scotch", my instinctive reaction is “No, you’re fucking not”.
    Just because your third cousin twice removed had a conversation with a Scot in 1684, does not make you Scottish. Get a grip.

    In my youth I read a comic called Oor Wullie which satirized this kind of thing endlessly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Adasta View Post
    We (the British) sometimes make jokes about this very phenomenon. It's considered a very American concern.

    In England, your "lineage" is generally considered to go back to your grandparents. So, for example, if your grandparents are Italian (like mine), people might say I'm half-Italian. However, I would always call myself English (if in Britain) and British (if elsewhere). If people make a comment about it, then I'll tell them, but it's not at all imperative.

    It strikes me as ridiculous and I'm at a loss to understand why Americans do it. The Italian-American community bears little resemblance at all to the original Italian community. Being loud and eating a lot does not "make you Italian", so to speak. I can only suppose they call themselves "Italian-American" as a way to create a culture in a country that has/had none; I imagine it's the same for other communities. There exists a concept of "The American Dream" yet everyone seems bent on not being American, unless someone suggests they are un-American, at which point they become super-American.

    It's all very odd.
    You’re right in that it both trivialises their own culture/identity and that of other nations. It’s supposed to be a compliment, but it’s actually an insult. It’s supposed to be unifying, but it’s actually alienating – because it’s so un-European (whatever that is...). They seem to think they can co-opt your culture in the way they co-opt the resources of other nation-states. And for this you should be flattered. The Irish have an expression for this kind of thing which appropriately conveys the distaste for the Disneyland inauthenticity: plastic paddy.

    When I was a student in Dublin we scoffed at the American celebration of St. Patrick, finding something preposterous in the green beer, the search for any connection, no matter how tenuous, to Ireland, the misty sentiment of it all that seemed so at odds with the Ireland we knew and actually lived in. Who were these people dressed as Leprechauns and why were they dressed that way? This Hibernian Brigadoon was a sham, a mockery, a Shamrockery of real Ireland and a remarkable exhibition of plastic paddyness. But at least it was confined to the Irish abroad and those foreigners desperate to find some trace of green in their blood.

    To outsiders, it seems that the US has a cultural Napoleon complex; paradoxically, cultural appropriation goes hand in hand with cultural imperialism. “We’re just like you! Only bigger and better!”
    But perhaps the worst trait of all is this tendency to take themselves so seriously, and get all sniffy when others mock the implicit absurdity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #103
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Socionics
    ENFp
    Posts
    6,075

    Default

    Why would ancestry and nationality be a conflict? Because much of the time Europeans have the same ancestry/nationality that means those two things are, by necessity, the same?

    I haven't heard an answer to an Asian looking person wandering around Europe. If the person's family has been there for a few generations does that make their ancestry the same as their nationality? Their family has been in Italy for a few generations so now their ancestry is Italian?

  4. #104
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,475

    Default

    I feel very quizzical that Europeans care so much. I'm blaming it on our lack of actual cultural ties and the overwhelming reach of our media. When I see other countries 'doing it wrong' I tend to just interpret it within the culture of the country, and maybe have a bit of a chuckle if the mutation is amusing.

    Yeah, we're insular, but there are reasons for that. Most Americans have little ability to see the world. Europe is a continent of many different cultures all kind of shoved together, America is a monoculture relative to that.

  5. #105
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    xkcd
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INT_
    Posts
    10,733

    Default

    Americans get lectured in their lack of historical knowledge constantly. Then when they show interest in it, they get lectured yet again.

    The only solution is to ignore the lecturing. Just go learn if you're interested. Who lives in a historical place now has little bearing on the past.

  6. #106
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    3,532

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Salome View Post
    Yes, we think it’s strange. Also irritating.

    When an American tells me he’s Scottish, or worse, "Scotch", my instinctive reaction is “No, you’re fucking not”.
    Just because your third cousin twice removed had a conversation with a Scot in 1684, does not make you Scottish. Get a grip.

    In my youth I read a comic called Oor Wullie which satirized this kind of thing endlessly.
    Again, you're misunderstanding what it means when an American says "I'm Scottish" or whatever. I won't repeat myself; you can read my several posts to the same effect above. But I do agree that the people (there are some, but it is by no means the majority) who engage in the inauthentic, skin-deep displays referenced in the comic above are laughable and annoying.

    The Irish have an expression for this kind of thing which appropriately conveys the distaste for the Disneyland inauthenticity: plastic paddy.
    I'm familiar with this term, but it's not fair to lump all Irish-Americans with an interest in their heritage under this category. I, too, find some typical American manifestations of Irishness ridiculous-- green beer, wearing green clothing and stupid hats and Mardi Gras beads, and getting plastered on St Patrick's Day.... no thanks. I observe St Patrick's Day as a celebration of my Irish heritage, but I usually just go out and hear some live Irish(-American) music, invite friends over and cook an Irish meal (no, not corned beef and cabbage - I make farls and Irish breakfast or colcannon, usually). I do not drink green beer (yuck!), usually I don't wear green but wear some kind of Celtic knot jewelry instead. On a daily basis, I listen to and play Irish music, learn/practice the Irish language, and research history, culture, etc. I've spent a fair amount of time researching my genealogy, but I'm stuck right now; have an ancestor for whom I can't find parental information.
    Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.

    My blog:
    TypeC: Adventures of an Introvert
    Wordpress: http://introvertadventures.wordpress.com/

  7. #107
    Sniffles
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Americans get lectured in their lack of historical knowledge constantly. Then when they show interest in it, they get lectured yet again.
    It's quite hilarious to listen to many of these lectures, usually because they're so historically inaccurate.

  8. #108
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    xkcd
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INT_
    Posts
    10,733

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    It's quite hilarious to listen to many of these lectures, usually because they're so historically inaccurate.
    There are many historical myths that get passed on as fact in all cultures.

    Another thing, if you are researching your ancestry, remember it is YOUR ancestry, not just someone's current culture. They are related, but not identical. No one owns the past more based on geographical location.

  9. #109
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    3,532

    Default

    Also, while it may be annoying to individuals, like Peguy and I mentioned earlier, there is great governmental support in many countries for maintaining ties with diasporic communities.

    Mary McAleese addresses the Irish Diaspora Forum:
    President Mary McAleese paid tribute to the achievements of the Irish Diaspora around the world. She went on to reflect on the rich diversity of that Diaspora and on their continued hunger for a "meaningful connectedness to one another and to Ireland.”

    “There are subtleties and complexities around the nature of the Irish Diaspora that we need to comprehend.” The President said and although there are differences in experience between and among our communities abroad “something palpable in the Irish psyche nudges us to be and keep on being community to one another. A deep appreciation of the emigrant experience and an affinity with a sense of Irishness - however that is interpreted - are defining characteristics of the global Irish family. Our culture and heritage are powerful instruments of connection.”
    Mary Robinson's Address to the Houses of the Oireachtas, 1995: Cherishing the Irish Diaspora:
    The more I know of these stories the more it seems to me an added richness of our heritage that Irishness is not simply territorial. In fact Irishness as a concept seems to me at its strongest when it reaches out to everyone on this island and shows itself capable of honouring and listening to those whose sense of identity, and whose cultural values, may be more British than Irish. It can be strengthened again if we turn with open minds and hearts to the array of people outside Ireland for whom this island is a place of origin.
    Indeed, when we consider the Irish migrants of the 17th, 18th, 19th and 20th centuries our preconceptions are challenged again. There is a growing literature which details the fortunes of the Irish in Europe and later in Canada, America, Australia, Argentina. These important studies of migration have the power to surprise us. They also demand from us honesty and self-awareness in return. If we expect that the mirror held up to us by Irish communities abroad will show us a single familiar identity, or a pure strain of Irishness, we will be disappointed. We will overlook the fascinating diversity of culture and choice which looks back at us. Above all we will miss the chance to have that dialogue with our own diversity which this reflection offers us.
    We have a responsibility to respond warmly to their expressed desire for appropriate fora for dialogue and interaction with us by examining in an open and generous way the possible linkages. We should accept that such a challenge is an education in diversity which can only benefit our society.
    Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.

    My blog:
    TypeC: Adventures of an Introvert
    Wordpress: http://introvertadventures.wordpress.com/

  10. #110
    Sniffles
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    There are many historical myths that get passed on as fact in all cultures.
    Yes, no nation or culture is immune to this. Ignorance of history isn't just an American thing.

Similar Threads

  1. [Fi] How do you get in tune with yourself?
    By gretch in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 07-24-2016, 07:13 AM
  2. [INTJ] Why do INTJ still keep in touch with their exes... too much?
    By ImNoBozo in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 10-23-2015, 06:52 PM
  3. Replies: 35
    Last Post: 05-10-2014, 02:03 PM
  4. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 12-06-2007, 04:11 PM
  5. These S people with their tiresome case against N
    By UnitOfPopulation in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 09-17-2007, 11:57 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO