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  1. #1
    Junior Member truth's Avatar
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    Lightbulb The Id, Ego and Super Ego

    The Id, Ego and Super Ego have been much facination for humans since Freud coined the terms. We have very little understanding about human motivations. I myself think in some ways I still do not have the full grasp, however, " I think threfore I am." Anyway, the Id is based upon the pleasure principle. And for mere amusement, will make her feminine. She is primarly concerned with pleasure. I want.. I want.. I want. Libido, what a monster. We can relate the her to a Child she seeks pleasure at all costs. Like a baby. Feed me.. hold me...change me. Is this where our unconscious desires may play out. :yim_rolling_on_the_

    The Ego works on the reality priciple. Once she kicks in you have faced reality. Now you are not controlled by your instinctial urges as you were in the Id stage but you are more "realistic" now. A balancing act between I can not have everything I want, when I want it. We would relate her to the Adult. She plays the equalizer between the ID and Super Ego. She is reasponsible, logical, effective. Yet, sometimes boring and grounded.

    Now the Super Ego is the moral self. She is the determinant of right and wrong of personality. She basically can be seen as the Parent. The Supe Ego holds on to the principles formed through society and parents.The Super Ego gives us rules and standards for good behavior. The super Ego can be too Rigid

    The Id Ego and Super ego are always at odds to create a balanced personality(ego strength).



    Ego Strength relates to the ego's ability to function despite these dueling forces. A person with good ego strength is able to effectively manage these pressures while those with too much or too little ego strength can become too unyielding or too disruptive (rigid).

    Tell us about your ego strength. Are you balanced or not? Why or why not?
    Last edited by truth; 02-21-2008 at 10:18 AM.

  2. #2
    a white iris elfinchilde's Avatar
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    As my nick suggests, I'm too much of a child.

    you just see the world with so different eyes this way, in so much more colour; it's freer, and less judgmental.

    on the negative side, may be too destructive at times: petulance, temperamental, a good old-fashioned intp refusal to conform to social norms.

    and i have GOT to get to sleep. argh. (see. this is the petulant child in me being controlled by the mature ego/super ego now. hehe.)

    You gave me hyacinths first a year ago;
    They called me the hyacinth girl.
    Yet when we came back, late, from the Hyacinth garden,
    Your arms full, and your hair wet, I could not
    Speak, and my eyes failed, I was neither
    Living nor dead, and I knew nothing,
    Looking into the heart of light, the silence.

    --T.S Eliot, The Wasteland

  3. #3
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I find the paradigm very useful for some people, where the three aspects are more pronounced.

    To make it even more simple:

    ID = impulses and desires
    Superego = conscience
    Ego = mediator between id and superego

    When the ID dominates, the person can become hedonistic and impulsive, self-indulgent. When the superego dominates, the person is very restricted and confined in behavior, also very judgmental.

    As far as my own personality goes, it is slowly coming back into balance, but my pathway was:

    1. Normal amount of ID.
    2. Towering Superego
    3. Superego constantly crushed the ID.
    4. Superego constantly overruled the ego, kept it an infant.
    5. Ego remained undefined, weak, puny, ineffective, the superego was the totalitarian master (I never really knew what I wanted to do, I just knew what I *had* to do, and going outside of that caused terrible anxiety)
    6. Finally the superego began to relinquish control, realizing that if the ego did not survive, then all of me would die. (In a sense I *am* my ego -- that sense of how I balance/mediate impulses with conscience.)
    7. This meant acknowledgment of the ID and indulgence of some impulses... but the ego would have to make those decisions.
    8. My ego is an older child, almost adolescent by now. The Superego still gripes a lot and brings up shame and doubt but otherwise holds off, and the ego is getting more confident to keep it in its place.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by truth View Post
    Anyway, the Id is based upon the pleasure principle. And for mere amusement, will make her feminine. She is primarly concerned with pleasure. I want.. I want.. I want. Libido, what a monster. We can relate the her to a Child she seeks pleasure at all costs. Like a baby. Feed me.. hold me...change me. Is this where our unconscious desires may play out.
    I would say that the Id has a bit more punch than that. The Id is a screaming two-year-old throwing a temper tantrum. It's all the things we have to deny in ourselves if we want to have civilization. Two-year-olds are all about immediate gratification; civilization is all about delayed gratification.

    But other than that, I think everything else is on the mark.

    The following is a tangent, using some stuff I posted in another thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    I was playing around with functions and how they reflect the structure of the brain. I interpreted J and P functions operating in tangent to create a closed loop. Here's what I came up with:

    Dominant & Auxiliary = Ego

    Tertiary & Inferior = Superego

    Shadow Dominant & Shadow Auxiliary = Wounded Ego

    Shadow Tertiary & Shadow Inferior = Id
    Id and Superego are basically early developmental stages from our childhood. Eventually they were kicked into our unconscious as something we didn't really want to face. But in even in our early childhood we were already playing around with our functions at those early stages, so some functions get tied up with those childhood developmental stages, albeit in an infantile form.

    I think that when we get increasingly wounded or stressed, we regress back to earlier developmental stages; hence, a certain infantile, inappropriate aspect to emotions like anger, fear, etc. We revisit those infantile developmental stages, and in doing so we revisit the functions associated with them in their infantile form.

    Hence, as an adult INFP, I can play around with my Tertiary function (Te) and develop it in a healthy form. But when I get very stressed I'll slip back to a developmental stage when my Superego was being formed, and I'll function (temporarily) in an infantile Te & Si loop - bullying (stressed-Te) and fixating on petty details (stressed Si).

    We also project our infantile stages onto others. If I'm feeling wounded (but not yet into full stressed-out mode), I'll project my infantile stressed-Te out onto the world around me and see myself surrounded and beset by Te bullies.

    Thus, I have adult functions (unstressed-Te), on one hand, and stressed functions hiding in my unconscious from earlier developmental stages (stressed-Te & stressed-Si) on the other. Developing unstressed Te doesn't necessarily defuse stressed-Te, though it does help me to better recognize when I'm getting too stressed and starting to regress back to stressed-Te & stressed-Si.

    Anyway, that's just some tangential stuff I've been playing with: We have these earlier developmental stages still within us, and we revisit them at times. But they have a certain amount of power--they're not necessarily fun things to play with. In traditional Freudian psychology, they're at the base of neuroses and psychoses. If they're too powerful and erupt into our conscious unbidden or if they bind our conscious ego too closely and prohibit it to act, we go a bit nuts.

    Sooner or later I have to type up my notes on this subject. Maybe I'll post them at some later date if anyone is interested in tying together MBTI and these Freudian childhood developmental stages.

  5. #5
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    This is something I've thought about before. I would say that in my case, the Ego seems stronger than the Super Ego most of the time (not sure about the Id). My Super Ego can be strong at times if other people may be assessing my actions and I know their opinion impacts me somehow, but I don't think I really internalize it much. I think it's more something I hold in mind when interacting with others.

    The interesting thing is, I can have a tendency to be rigid/moralistic (superego traits), but I'm mostly rigid against people believing in and advocating perspectives that disgust me. Usually this is a problem for me because I feel like they're trying to impose a belief or set of values that I don't want, and that I can't see the value in. Possibly even one that I feel personally invalidated by. So I think mostly use my superego as a rationalization/defense mechanism against other people's values rather than internalizing it or making it part of myself... does that make sense?

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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    The interesting thing is, I can have a tendency to be rigid/moralistic (superego traits), but I'm mostly rigid against people believing in and advocating perspectives that disgust me. Usually this is a problem for me because I feel like they're trying to impose a belief or set of values that I don't want, and that I can't see the value in. Possibly even one that I feel personally invalidated by. So I think mostly use my superego as a rationalization/defense mechanism rather than internalizing it or making it part of myself... does that make sense?
    In traditional Freudian use of these concepts:

    1) You hear someone advocating something;

    2) Your Id perks up and says, "Yes! I want that! Now! Give it to me!";

    3) Your Superego registers the Id getting excited and says to the Id, "You're a disgusting little creep. You know that Mom and Dad told you that you can't do/have that";

    4) Having beat down the Id, the Superego takes over your conscious aspect (your conscious Ego registers the Id/Superego conflict as anxiety and stress, and you regress to full Superego mode), and it tells the person talking: "You can't talk about that! Everyone knows it's disgusting!"

    5) Once the Superego tells off the other person or removes you from the source of the problem, the Id goes back to sleep, the Superego goes back to sleep, the stress level goes down, and the Ego can re-assert itself in unstressed (normal) fashion.

    That's basically how it works in traditional Freudian use of these concepts.

    [Edit:] The actually feeling or emotion of disgust is your expression of your anxiety. IOW, disgust isn't a property of the subject matter; it's the sensation that arises from your unconscious when your Id and Superego go into full conflict.

  7. #7
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    In traditional Freudian use of these concepts:

    1) You hear someone advocating something;

    2) Your Id perks up and says, "Yes! I want that! Now! Give it to me!";

    3) Your Superego registers the Id getting excited and says to the Id, "You're a disgusting little creep. You know you that Mom and Dad told you that you can't do/have that";

    4) Having beat down the Id, the Superego takes over your conscious aspect (your conscious Ego registers the Id/Superego conflict as anxiety and stress, and you regress to full Superego mode), and it tells the person talking: "You can't talk about that! Everyone knows it's disgusting!"

    5) Once the Superego tells off the other person or removes you from the source of the problem, the Id goes back to sleep, the Superego goes back to sleep, the stress level goes down, and the Ego can re-assert itself in unstressed (normal) fashion.

    That's basically how it works in traditional Freudian use of these concepts.
    I don't know if I agree with that for all situations. What if you feel that what's being advocated negatively affects you personally? For instance, a taxpayer protesting against someone who advocates higher taxes.

  8. #8
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    [Edit:] The actually feeling or emotion of disgust is your expression of your anxiety. IOW, disgust isn't a property of the subject matter; it's the sensation that arises from your unconscious when your Id and Superego go into full conflict.
    So what you're saying is that disgust/opposition is never mine, just a superego construct? So I don't really get to "not want" something or some situation, even if it seems undesirable or even harmful consciously?

    Wow. Do I even get to have a will, or does it just seem that way based on how my conscious elements interact with the unconscious ones? I'll probably repress this eventually because if I think about it too much, it would probably make it harder to live, thus it will be pushed away from consciousness...

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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I don't know if I agree with that for all situations. What if you feel that what's being advocated negatively affects you personally? For instance, a taxpayer protesting against someone who advocates higher taxes.
    1) Initially, you'll handle that discussion as a purely intellectual matter: Your Ego will remain in command, your Id is too infantile to be bothered by such a lofty subject and thus ignores the discussion, and since your Id remains quiet so does your Superego;

    2) But after arguing with the other party for a while, you become frustrated when the other party remains adamant in their view. You start feeling wounded and hurt that the other party won't listen to you, and you regress to a more infantile Wounded Ego stage where you process the situation through a stressed-Ne + stressed-Fi loop (in the case of INFJs); you project stressed-Ti onto the other person and see him as negating/ridiculing you.

    3) And so on. As you continue arguing, you continue to regress to more and more infantile states. You also project more and more infantile aspects onto the other party. Pretty quickly, this wakes up the Id; that is, the other party comes to appear more and more threatening, and your basic infantile fear and anger modes come out. So the Id wakes up and starts screaming "Kill the bastard! He has no right to treat me like this! Rip his guts out!"

    4) And of course this wakes up the Superego and starts another Id/Superego conflict as described above.

    Anyway, the point is this: It's not the subject of the discussion that gets you riled up (other than intellectually). The thing that gets you riled up is your emotional frustration that the other party isn't hearing you. In the case of INFJs, you tend to project that as the other party negating or even ridiculing you, and that starts off a regression to more infantile emotional states.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    So what you're saying is that disgust/opposition is never mine, just a superego construct? So I don't really get to "not want" something or some situation, even if it seems undesirable or even harmful consciously?

    Wow. Do I even have a will, or does it just seem that way based on how my conscious elements interact with the unconscious ones?
    See my last post where I described the intellectual debate.

    You can intellectually like or dislike something and make your own choices about what you want or don't want. But as soon as you begin to get emotional about the debate (i.e., experiencing frustration that the other party doesn't seem to be hearing you), then inevitably your reactions are going to become increasingly emotionally tinged.

    So if you want to avoid a lot of emotional distress, keep things cool and intellectual. Take a break when you feel yourself start getting distressed and irritated. Don't go into places like disgust and frustration and anger if you want to make a purely intellectual point.

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