Common, everyday psychopaths

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HOW TO KNOW
Ask yourself these questions:
1. Do you often feel used by the person?
2. Have you often felt that he (or she) doesn't care about you?
3. Does he lie and deceive you?
4. Does he tend to make contradictory statements?
5. Does he tend to take from you and not give back much?
6. Does he often appeal to pity? Does he seem to try to make you feel sorry for him?
7. Does he try to make you feel guilty?
8. Do you sometimes feel he is taking advantage of your good nature?
9. Does he seem easily bored and need constant stimulation?
11. Does he make you feel worried? Does he do it obviously or more cleverly and sneakily?
12. Does he give you the impression you owe him?
13. Does he blame everyone and everything but himself?

If you answered "yes" to many of these, you may be dealing with a sociopath.

Kept the ones that apply to my family, pretty much describes my father and brother. Understandable why I would want distance and have trust issues when I'm around my family.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

i'm curious about the nature of behavior that resembles sociopathy, but isn't quite. or maybe is low-grade sociopathy.

take a friend of mine - we met because we lived nearby in college, and our friendship sort of clicked because we both wanted (needed) someone to hang out with all the time - as EPs, we shared a particular dislike for doing many things alone. as our friendship went on, her minor rulebreaking (not unlike my own) began to reveal itself as a much more serious past (and present) of academic cheating, major drugs, shoplifting, sleeping around extensively, using other people to get what she wanted, etc. i would put money on her being an ESFP, but she had a remarkably lacking sense of humanistic feeling (remorse, for example) for a Fi aux (which i am quite certain she was - the emotionality, fuzzy decision making, use of Te similar to mine, etc). on the other hand, she did have a big soft spot for animals, which i found very interesting. she was raised by a wealthy family in a decent environment (her mom's got some body image issues, but her father is doting and the family seems pretty healthy in general), and i've never really been able to figure out why her life veered in the direction it did. we drew apart, too, as i got more and more moralistic in response to her actions and she got more and more pissed that i was moralistic, and we haven't spoken in years now...

interesting, really. she doesn't really seem to care much for other humans, but she's almost borderline in her need for a close, stabilizing relationship. she never showed anger issues, but she was unquestionably reckless and showed little concern for harming others. she was close and warm with her dad and little brother, but HATED her mother.



i dunno. just interesting.

I've always wondered this about my friend who said she was a sociopath. At times, I wondered if she only said this to make her sound more badass. Then at other times, I felt as though it were unquestionable.

However, she doesn't resemble how your friend is. She never cheated in school, never shoplifted... she loves animals and has a lot of cats... she's sort of cold and warm. But, I've always wondered if the warmness was fake and just to keep people around. I really don't know.

Her form of manipulation and lack of remorse was more in the realm of creating drama, rumors and lack of care in dispensing other peoples secrets. And she often would use these to gain power amongst the group of friends we had. But she has a strong need to take care of all of us at the same time. But then again, that could just be part of the manipulation to keep us around. We definitely used to describe her as needing us more than we need her. It was as though she needed people around to hold some sort of power, but didn't really actually care. A need to be loved but not love.

I do still often wonder about her.

Sometimes I wonder if she's just trying to fit in like the rest of us and that's why she fakes emotions. But then again, maybe her emotions are genuine, but they are just so distant from her that it's hard to tell. Everyone else seems to have the hang of it... everyone seems to think she's odd for the lack of it... so maybe the need to step that up and imitate it are just her ways of attempting to fit it.

Do all sociopaths have to inherently be bad? I can't say I know too much on the topic... but just because emotions are distant and nearly nonexistant... does this mean they are definitely likely to do bad? Or is it possible to see ones self as defected and try and strive for normalcy. Can sociopaths merely be akin to robots, wanting to be human?

 

[Thalassa]

^^^

My ex used to call himself a sociopath sometimes. The reason why I laugh is because he cries over abused children and gives food to homeless people and befriends people who seem left out...he also cries at movies, and is deeply committed to his family and the people he loves, no matter what dysfunctional form that takes.

I think he actually has Borderline Personality Disorder.

Also, Indy, your friend could be any number of things - being selfish or manipulative doesn't make a person an actual sociopath.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

The thing is... it really is hard to tell if she really lacks emotions and is only imitating them or not. She is very cold and has a difficult time sympathizing. And we have always described her as only wanting people around to worship her, in the past at least. But now that we've all grown up a bit, her way of keeping hold on us doesn't work anymore. We seek out people who we can really connect with, and that person is not her. Therefore, she can no longer act as though she's our god, because it just turns us all off and ostracizes her from us. I think this is why she attempts to be nicer. She herself has tried opening up with me and another one of our best friends, an INFJ, about how she feels as though there is a demon inside of her that she has a hard time controlling, but that she does want to control the demon. I think it's plausible for sociopaths to possibly see their self as defected humans, when they see how emotions really do draw people together. And their inability to do so, is one way of losing hold on us. She can only imitate emotions to a certain point, and she does so in ways of making gestures of kindness such as offering her friends a place to crash when they need it, or giving us rides if necessary, or attempting to be reaffirming, as that's what she see's her feeler females do and how that works so well for us. There are also many men that refuse to date her because they see her as inherently evil, and her tricks don't work on them. She's reached a point where manipulating just doesn't work so well. She might be able to do it in subtle ways, such as faking emotions to keep us around... but not to the degree of talking behind our backs to keep us around anymore.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

I found this article interesting: http://www.damninteresting.com/the-unburdened-mind

It even lists character types, like James Bond, as potential sociopaths. But that they aren't all inherently violent, but merely evil in a domineering sort of way. Top of chain executives, etc.

 

[Tiger Owl]

Could you trust the MBTI of a sociopath? Would they be more likely to manipulate the results either to conceal their nature or just to entertain themselves/ mental masturbation? I have been curious about whether or not certain types are more commonly represented in populations like prison, cereal killers, politicians etc. Looking around the real world it seems evident that the inmates are running the asylum. I have met sociopaths and I get a strong gut reaction from them. I then make it my duty to warn/protect their SO, social circle, or other target of their parasitism.

 

[INA]

I have been curious about whether or not certain types are more commonly represented in populations like prison, cereal killers, politicians etc.

Cereal killers are cereal bizness.

 

[Tiger Owl]

Cereal killers are cereal bizness.

Ha! I was typing the post and imagining a photo I saw years ago of someone dressed as a "cereal" killer for halloween. I warned myself to make sure I checked my spelling - and spelled it wrong anyway. Good catch

 

[chickpea]

i'm pretty sure i know a sociopath. my best guess typing him would be estp 8w7. he's a crack dealer/pimp and seriously the most selfish person i've ever met. hanging out with him is like watching a trainwreck. one time i was in the car with him and his girlfriend, he was fucked up and hit a parked car and completely smashed the passenger side window. his girlfriend had glass all over her and was lucky she didnt get seriously hurt, but he ended up making her get out of the car and clean it up for him. he also used to show up at my house early in the morning and decide to make that his home base for the day, just stayed there coming in and out for over 12 hours one time. cooked crack in my apartment in my pot without asking. idk i get some sick fascination out of him because of how little he cares about other people's feelings/what people think of him. he gets social security for his back problems (which he exaggerates a lot) and when i hear him on the phone with the government people i'm amazed at how he gets all sweet and turns the charm on and calls people ma'am.

i've met a large portion of his family though and they are all fucking insane in their own special way. his dad's the worst of all.

 

[Tiger Owl]

i'm pretty sure i know a sociopath. my best guess typing him would be estp 8w7. he's a crack dealer/pimp and seriously the most selfish person i've ever met. hanging out with him is like watching a trainwreck. one time i was in the car with him and his girlfriend, he was fucked up and hit a parked car and completely smashed the passenger side window. his girlfriend had glass all over her and was lucky she didnt get seriously hurt, but he ended up making her get out of the car and clean it up for him. he also used to show up at my house early in the morning and decide to make that his home base for the day, just stayed there coming in and out for over 12 hours one time. cooked crack in my apartment in my pot without asking. idk i get some sick fascination out of him because of how little he cares about other people's feelings/what people think of him. he gets social security for his back problems (which he exaggerates a lot) and when i hear him on the phone with the government people i'm amazed at how he gets all sweet and turns the charm on and calls people ma'am.

i've met a large portion of his family though and they are all fucking insane in their own special way. his dad's the worst of all.

Careful chana, friends like those will let you sit in prison for them without hesitating, they may even arrange it if it suits or benefits them. There are much safer adrenalin rushes out there. Hanging with folks like that doesn't make you their friend it makes you their accomplice. Not trying to sound preachy, just been in similar situations in the past. I am the only one of that group that didn't end up in one institution or another.

 

[Aibell]

I've just read a book by the person behind this site. Dr. George K Simon. He has an interessting take on "the everyday psykopath" and calls them covert aggressive. The difference between a psykopath/sociopath is that the covert aggressive ones tends to stick to the law while a sociopath has no regard for any kind of rules. The sociopath may have covert aggressive traits tho, so I guess the labels are to some extent overlapping.

"Covert-aggressive personalities do their best to appear benign on the surface and to veil all their aggressive agendas. Their use of tactics to conceal their aggressive intentions while simultaneously getting the better of others makes them one of the most manipulative personalities." ~ Dr. George K Simon

 

[jimrckhnd]

I always assume that most psychopaths end up in upper management positions. It explains alot and it has the advantage of keeping me on my toes around them.

 

[uncommonentity]

No-one's a psychopath if you're not a victim. As in nature those that are at the lower end of the food chain will always be eaten. Knowledge saves.

 

[Thalassa]

I've just read a book by the person behind this site. Dr. George K Simon. He has an interessting take on "the everyday psykopath" and calls them covert aggressive. The difference between a psykopath/sociopath is that the covert aggressive ones tends to stick to the law while a sociopath has no regard for any kind of rules. The sociopath may have covert aggressive traits tho, so I guess the labels are to some extent overlapping.

"Covert-aggressive personalities do their best to appear benign on the surface and to veil all their aggressive agendas. Their use of tactics to conceal their aggressive intentions while simultaneously getting the better of others makes them one of the most manipulative personalities." ~ Dr. George K Simon

Psychopath = Ted Bundy.

"Hi, I'm an attractive, charming law student. Can you help me carry my books since I broke my leg?" *chops woman up in van*

Of course all psychopaths aren't that murderous, but I think they remain in the gene pool because of their amazing ability for "normalcy" and "blending in" and even in some cases extraordinary charisma.

 

[MacGuffin]

I've just read a book by the person behind this site. Dr. George K Simon. He has an interessting take on "the everyday psykopath" and calls them covert aggressive. The difference between a psykopath/sociopath is that the covert aggressive ones tends to stick to the law while a sociopath has no regard for any kind of rules. The sociopath may have covert aggressive traits tho, so I guess the labels are to some extent overlapping.

"Covert-aggressive personalities do their best to appear benign on the surface and to veil all their aggressive agendas. Their use of tactics to conceal their aggressive intentions while simultaneously getting the better of others makes them one of the most manipulative personalities." ~ Dr. George K Simon

ENTJs aren't that bad...

 

[Ginkgo]

Could you trust the MBTI of a sociopath? Would they be more likely to manipulate the results either to conceal their nature or just to entertain themselves/ mental masturbation? I have been curious about whether or not certain types are more commonly represented in populations like prison, cereal killers, politicians etc. Looking around the real world it seems evident that the inmates are running the asylum. I have met sociopaths and I get a strong gut reaction from them. I then make it my duty to warn/protect their SO, social circle, or other target of their parasitism.

Prisons aren't as populated with sociopaths as one might think. The majority of people hounded by the justice system are those who were pushed to the brink or dumbasses. If sociopaths occupy a higher plain of intelligence and lack affect, then they can endure the forces that would compel most to break the law and calculate the consequences of their actions in ways tailored to their self-preservation. Even Hannibal Lector was useful and cunning in the grander scheme of things.

 

[Santosha]

Sociopaths are more rule abiding, having a lower need for excitability. Psychopaths share the lack of brain activity and neurons in the empathy regions, but have a much higher need for excitability.

I would be very hesitant to tag someone as a sociopath based on the list of behaviors in the OP. There are many people with various disorders that share these behaviors and it has little to do with biological empathic capacity. The reason that we find a link in nurture and deviant actions is more often than not - because some people can become so emotionally damaged that they truly *feel* that society owes them, that they have been screwed over, and that it is fair to push back because everyone else has more, has it easier, etc. You can see this description in a few of the enneagrams unhealthy levels. This doesn't mean that they lack the capacity to be empathetic.. all the biological functioning is there, they simply lack the ability to understand anothers perspective because they are so overwhelmed and driven through negative emotional backdrop and reaction. VERY different from those that have low neural activity in the inferior parietal cortex and the superior temproal gyrus.

Irony: "sociopaths should all be rounded up and gassed or shot!" LOL - WTF is that?

Many researchers fall into the nature camp on empathy. It is NOT a learned responce, it is inherent. While growing up in a loving and supporting environment would certainly reinforce differing perspectives, it will not determine the natural capacity. Sociopaths can and have grown up in very good environments only to go on to use and abuse everything that falls in their path, while others have been born into the most heinous of circumstances.. and become social workers, elderly care takers, animal activist, blah blah.

One might consider how blended the environmental link is to the biological link. If emapthy is developed in the womb (and research supports this) then many of those lacking empathy are quite possibly being born to parents who lack empathy, thus more likely born into homes of abuse and neglect. I would still be extremely weary of tagging anyone as sociopathic based on any kind of behavior.

The biggest question (imo) is how accountable can we expect someone to be when they are born like this? TO be born with no empathy. Many of us can't even fathom what this would look like, how we might act, how me might view the world. I would go so far as to say that being this different would pose tremendous difficulty in adapting to society and require one to be very intelligent indeed, especially if they have avoided the lower end criminal nets.

No, I don't think these people are in-human at all. Empathy isn't even exclusive to humans as research reveals animals (including rats) having some degree of it.

I echo others sentiments in that understanding sociopaths and finding use or value in for them in some guarded fashion would be the best route. We don't kill people for having any other disability or abnormality.. why would we view sociopaths differently? Because some of them are intelligent? It seems that everyone here understands intellectual intelligence =/= emotional intelligence. We are basically talking about the emotionally retarded here. Society has generally embraced supporting the intellectually or physically weak, yet we wan't to demonize those with emotional weakness? I just don't understand this line of thought at all.

As far as wanting to keep sociopaths out of your life, I think that is a personal decision and wise in the "what works and what doesn't" aspect. But what about "unconditional love?" Do we only love people for what they give back to us? What they bring to us? Is it impossible to love someone simply for who they are.. even if that encompasses emotional retardation?

Another thought that comes to mind is that alot of new-age literature seems to believe that as human consciousness evolves we are seeing a much higher empath-population being born. I don't know if I believe this or its just us valuing thus recognizing these qualities more now. But it would follow that if empathy IS biologically determined, and IF empathy is needed for the continuing of the species, those with higher empathy (being people focused) would be inclined to mate easier, thus pro-create easier, and also stick in family units longer, ensuring the stability and growth of the family unit and life. So perhaps we just all need to get smart in recognizing sociopaths and stop fucking them. They might naturally wipe themselves out of the gene pool. =D

 

[jimrckhnd]

I have met sociopaths and I get a strong gut reaction from them. I then make it my duty to warn/protect their SO, social circle, or other target of their parasitism.

I'm curious - how can you be sure that you are correct that these people are sociopaths and not people you just have a natural antipathy for? Not suggesting you haven't I'm just wondering how you can be sure and thus be certain of the accuracy of your gut reaction. The reason I ask is - is it possible that some people develop an ability to spot these types of personalities as an evolutionary adaptation? It seems reasonable that in a primitive situation where cooperation was essential and life was balanced on a knife edge in the best of times having a sociopath in the primary group could be a serious problem.

I'm very intrigued about your talent. If you are inclined I'd be curious to hear more about it.

 

[Thalassa]

Even Hannibal Lector was useful and cunning in the grander scheme of things.

Hannibal Lector is a fanciful fictional composite of several serial killers. From my research on their personalities, they actually are not extraordinary people at all, but what is most striking about them is their nearly bland ability to embrace "normality" and to present traits which utterly blend in to the backdrop.

Many do have very high intelligence though which is what allows them to plan out their elaborate "hobby."

 

[Elfboy]

- psychopath and sociopath are different. psychopath is completely genetic. their amygdalae just don't work; sociopath is caused by psychological trauma or extremely adverse circumstances. sociopath also comes in varying degrees.
- there are probably more than 1% of women who are psychopaths if 3-4% of men are. they probably are just harder to spot
- none of the traits listed in the OP are exclusive to psychopaths or sociopaths. in fact, the majority of people with each of these traits individually are probably not psychopaths or sociopaths, therefore I think it's good as a tentative sign at best

*I think sociopaths can also become mentally healthy like most people but still retain being a sociopath. this is just my thoughts though