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  1. #51
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Informal language has adapted to use "they" as the go-to gender neutral singular pronoun, even though it's technically a plural pronoun. It's still grammatically incorrect, though, so it wouldn't make it through the editing process if it's written into an article.
    It's interesting to note that the word "they" seems to be following the same path as the word "you," though. Originally, "you" was plural, and "thou" was used for the singular case. Eventually, however, the distinction was lost, and now "you" is used regardless of number. The same thing may be happening with the word "they," in that it may come to be used in a singular way, leading the loss of "he" and "she."

  2. #52
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Information taken from the Encyclopedia of Mental Disorders at minddisorders.com


    Narcissism
    http://www.minddisorders.com/Kau-Nu/...-disorder.html
    DSM-IV-TR specifies nine diagnostic criteria for NPD. For the clinician to make the diagnosis, an individual must fit five or more of the following descriptions:

    * He or she has a grandiose sense of self-importance (exaggerates accomplishments and demands to be considered superior without real evidence of achievement).
    * He or she lives in a dream world of exceptional success, power, beauty, genius, or "perfect" love.
    * He or she thinks of him- or herself as "special" or privileged, and that he or she can only be understood by other special or high-status people.
    * He or she demands excessive amounts of praise or admiration from others.
    * He or she feels entitled to automatic deference, compliance , or favorable treatment from others.
    * He or she is exploitative towards others and takes advantage of them.
    * He or she lacks empathy and does not recognize or identify with others' feelings.
    * He or she is frequently envious of others or thinks that they are envious of him or her.
    * He or she "has an attitude" or frequently acts in haughty or arrogant ways.

    In addition to these criteria, DSM-IV-TR groups NPD together with three other personality disorders in its so-called Cluster B. These four disorders are grouped together on the basis of symptom similarities, insofar as patients with these disorders appear to others as overly emotional, unstable, or self-dramatizing. The other three disorders in Cluster B are antisocial, borderline, and histrionic personality disorders.



    Antisocial Personality Disorder [sociopathy, psychopathy as subtypes]
    http://www.minddisorders.com/A-Br/An...-disorder.html
    People diagnosed with APD in prison populations act as if they have no conscience. They move through society as predators, paying little attention to the consequences of their actions. They cannot understand feelings of guilt or remorse. Deceit and manipulation characterize their interpersonal relationships.

    Men or women diagnosed with this personality disorder demonstrate few emotions beyond contempt for others. Their lack of empathy is often combined with an inflated sense of self-worth and a superficial charm that tends to mask an inner indifference to the needs or feelings of others. Some studies indicate people with APD can only mimic the emotions associated with committed love relationships and friendships that most people feel naturally...

    The diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder is usually based on a combination of a careful medical as well as psychiatric history and an interview with the patient. The doctor will look for recurrent or repetitive patterns of antisocial behavior. He or she may use a diagnostic questionnaire for APD, such as the Hare Psychopathy Checklist, if the patient's history suggests the diagnosis. A person aged 18 years or older with a childhood history of disregard for the rights of others can be diagnosed as having APD if he or she gives evidence of three of the following seven behaviors associated with disregard for others:

    * Fails to conform to social norms, as indicated by frequently performing illegal acts or pursuing illegal occupations.
    * Deceives and manipulates others for selfish reasons, often in order to obtain money, sex, drugs or power. This behavior may involve repeated lying, conning or the use of false names.
    * Fails to plan ahead or displays impulsive behavior, as indicated by a long succession of short-term jobs or frequent changes of address.
    * Engages in repeated fights or assaults as a consequence of irritability and aggressiveness.
    * Exhibits reckless disregard for safety of self or others.
    * Shows a consistent pattern of irresponsible behavior, including failure to find and keep a job for a sustained length of time and refusal to pay bills or honor debts.
    * Shows no evidence of sadness, regret or remorse for actions that have hurt others.

    In order to meet DSM-IV-TR criteria for APD, a person must also have had some symptoms of conduct disorder before age 15. An adult 18 years or older who does not meet all the criteria for APD may be given a diagnosis of conduct disorder.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  3. #53
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    ^Above are the standard definitions, but I think the statistics and list of behaviors in the OP is from the book "The Sociopath Next Door". The above description is of those who get caught and end up in prison - the "unsuccessful" sociopath. The idea in the book by Martha Stout is that there are more than people traditional think and that many integrate into society as professionally successful even though they wreak havoc on the people they interact with personally. I don't know what the realistic statistics are about the presence of people with zero empathy and self-aggrandizement who function successfully in society, or even how those statistics could be gathered, but suspect such people are more present than often assumed. The ones with the greatest power like CEO of corporations (one mentioned earlier who left his wife at home without access to food), are not the unstable ones who end up in prison. Perhaps there should be distinct categories of disorders between the unstable street criminal and the white collar violence that is masked by financial and social status.

    edit: This could by cynical of me, but my impression amongst the high ranking individuals in politics and corporations is that the percentages of having this type of inner distortion of self could be quite high. If a study showed as many as half of them having some notable degree of it I wouldn't be shocked, although it would more likely be less than that (definitely higher than the general population). I think there are disorders worse than what you see in the unstable criminal. Some of the high ranking violence requires are far greater degradation of personality imo.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  4. #54
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annwn View Post
    Information taken from the Encyclopedia of Mental Disorders at minddisorders.com

    Narcissism
    http://www.minddisorders.com/Kau-Nu/...-disorder.html
    DSM-IV-TR specifies nine diagnostic criteria for NPD. For the clinician to make the diagnosis, an individual must fit five or more of the following descriptions:

    * He or she has a grandiose sense of self-importance (exaggerates accomplishments and demands to be considered superior without real evidence of achievement).
    * He or she lives in a dream world of exceptional success, power, beauty, genius, or "perfect" love.
    * He or she thinks of him- or herself as "special" or privileged, and that he or she can only be understood by other special or high-status people.
    * He or she demands excessive amounts of praise or admiration from others.
    * He or she feels entitled to automatic deference, compliance , or favorable treatment from others.
    * He or she is exploitative towards others and takes advantage of them.
    * He or she lacks empathy and does not recognize or identify with others' feelings.
    * He or she is frequently envious of others or thinks that they are envious of him or her.
    * He or she "has an attitude" or frequently acts in haughty or arrogant ways.
    I've only known one person who fit this definition and the experience is recent. She was like a tornado - leaving a trail of damage in her wake. I was deceived initially because this person was very smart and very charming. It took me too long though to figure it out. I like to think the best of people and probably made excuses for her behavior instead of making a judgment call. What a nightmare. Sheesh! The thing I realized is there is absolutely nothing you can do with these types of people except to completely keep them out of your life.

    Oh - And per Annwn's comments, she has had some level of professional success. She's an attorney and well known in her field. She is outgoing, charming, funny and knowledgeable - and a complete psycho.
    Last edited by highlander; 01-11-2011 at 10:58 PM.

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  5. #55
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Can't really think of any real psychopaths that I have run into in real life (online is a different story.)

    Most of them that are even remotely close are... just strange. And...well...strange shouldn't really be constituted as a psychopath. I'm strange, you're strange, everyone is strange.

    Otherwise, "In a mad world, only the mad are sane."

  6. #56
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I don't believe that sociopaths/psychopaths are evil, but are rather amoral. They lack both guilt (Fe), and an internal moral compass (Fi). They only have primitive, self-centered survival instincts. Like an animal, but with the intelligence of a human being.

    I believe that instead of isolating these people and separating them from society, and leaving them to rot in prison, we should simply create a social role for identified sociopaths and psychopaths that forces them to contribute to society in order to avoid being subjected to something they consider undesirable, and to gain something they consider desirable. Since they're not emotionally similar to other people, they must be dealt with differently. We would need to apply rules to them that would seem extremely harsh, oppressive, and cruel if applied to a normal person, but which are justified in controlling/containing a psychopath.

    I believe that we live among many of these people, and that due to their high intelligence, they have a lot to contribute if we can only harness their potential in a constructive way. Naturally, we cannot allow them to be trusted or valued by others, but they could be useful if forced to do tasks that require neither capacity.
    I think this overall perspective is very interesting. As society becomes more fragmented it seems likely that children will not find the sort of support that allows them to form bonds normally and as a result a lack of bonding will be seen. If I recall correctly, america is the most individualistic country on the planet-we encourage putting ourselves before others in some sense.

    dead end solutions seem rather pointless -like the death penalty or the label of EVIL. It may remove the person or isolate them, but given the equilibrium of society, another will quickly take their place. It doesnt seem effective and seems sort of pointless, although keeps an individual safe.

    An interesting paper once noted that sociopathy is raised to rates of 20% in an inner city slum and that you could monitor the children over time and sees increases in cortisol earlier due to stress and then later see higher levels of testosterone in the males.

    It seems to point to evolved mechanisms for survival-under times of stress and resource limitations-cheating the system seems to be an evolved advantage. You can cheat a bit and your kids survive because nobody notices. You cheat a lot and you get socially outcast. But as a social group becomes more destablized, stress increases, resources are limited and the way you survive is learning to game the systems around you and being self focused. Those who can treat the world like a game win. Society is sociopathic.

    Now imagine a kid raised in an unstable family-the same stress is felt, the same hormonal cascade set in effect-and you end up with an isolated event of sociopathy rather than the whole social structure being "sociopathic". I find it very interesting to note that children of different personality types would take very different paths under this sort of stress and lack of stable bond formation. All end up "fucked up" but the external look will differ.

    What to do? Outside of the EVIL label? I dunno. I do know that the guy I knew with NPD and the girl who verged on sociopathic selfishness both got along perfectly-their patterns could not match society, but they did match each other-thus were "normal" to one another. Who gets to own the definition of normal...

  7. #57
    Senor Membrane
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    An interesting paper once noted that sociopathy is raised to rates of 20% in an inner city slum and that you could monitor the children over time and sees increases in cortisol earlier due to stress and then later see higher levels of testosterone in the males.

    It seems to point to evolved mechanisms for survival-under times of stress and resource limitations-cheating the system seems to be an evolved advantage. You can cheat a bit and your kids survive because nobody notices. You cheat a lot and you get socially outcast. But as a social group becomes more destablized, stress increases, resources are limited and the way you survive is learning to game the systems around you and being self focused. Those who can treat the world like a game win. Society is sociopathic.
    Very interesting. Makes sense too. I tend to connect many problems to too high level of individualism in the society, and now I can do the same with sociopaths Thanks!

  8. #58
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Smile Gaming with all the pride of an obedient child.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    the way you survive is learning to game the systems around you and being self focused. Those who can treat the world like a game win. Society is sociopathic.
    What is sad, even tragic, is the number of members who treat MBTI as a game.

    It is normal here to game MBTI. And why not? MBTI is gaming us. It claims to be a personality test, where the most minimal research will show this is a lie. It's a lie like the Tonkin Gulf Incident and the Weapons of Mass Destruction and the lie that the drones are killing the Taliban in Pakistan.

    When we have been so thoroughly gamed for so long, it is only natural to game in return. The price however is our humanity.

    What is frightening is how normal it is to game here. It's as though gaming is taken for granted. Some are proud of their gaming ability and even boast of it. They game with all the pride of an obedient child.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.damninteresting.com/the-unburdened-mind
    Posts "first!" comments on Internet sites
    lol

    I always wondered who did that.

  10. #60
    Senior Member Rex's Avatar
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    http://www.policeone.com/edp/article...k-side-Part-2/

    i can`t find the next part. The interogation. Right now i can`t even find the first part. What a crappy internett page.

    Btw: the US army looks for pscyopaths i believe as they dont`t get traumas and so on.

    Its also a nice way of getting rid of them.
    Also puts them to good use and keeping them away from sosical lifes so they do not develop manipulation skills.

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