Common, everyday psychopaths

[Randomnity]

Except all of my partners throughout my life, I can assign at least 8-10 of those points to each one.

So I am either attracted to sociopaths OR, we all have sociopath like tendencies..

The Agenda is not in the behaviors listed.. But rather in the Gender specific use of "He" and not He/she...

ONLY if.. the stats are; 100% of all sociopaths are male and 0% of all sociopaths are female, can the "presentation" of this data not have a gender bias.
Therefore a gender bias suggests an opposing agenda against the mentioned gender.

Ironically, I think the stereotypical "feminist" response would be to criticize the OP for not saying "she". "He" has historically been used as a gender "neutral" sort of pronoun, as a default so you don't have to run around saying "he or she" all the time. There's been lots of feminist arguments about why this isn't appropriate, which I'm not going to get into because I don't really care.

So no, I don't think this is an example of feminist agenda, and still wouldn't even if the ratio was 1:1 and not 97:3 or so, because of the historical usage of "he". This is still part of the english language and very common, although growing less so, I think.

 

[Mole]

Returning home for the first time.

I must say I am not so much interested in dissociated personality disorder, rather I am interested in the dissociated personality.

A personality disorder is a mental illness, with the sufferer out of touch with reality, while a personality is in touch with reality.

And interestingly, the dissociated personality is normal in authoritarian societies, such as societies that compel their children by law to leave home and go to a special institution for twelve years, with specially trained staff, to be taught to read and write.

We meet the dissociated personality every day. They do a job but hate doing it. They are dissociated into one part of the personality doing the job and the other part of the personality hating it at the same time.

These two parts of the personality are not compatible and so must be kept separate so the victim can function successfully in an authoritarian society.

So the dissociated personality operates two personalities at the same time, unbeknownst to one another.

And because the dissociated personality is so normal and so common, it passes unnoticed beneath the radar.

The dissociated personality can start to grow if the two parts of the personality can start to talk to one another. And when it starts to happen, it has all the pain, tears and joy of returning home for the first time.

At an early age the State compelled us to leave home to go to an institution, but now with courage and a little help, we can now return home.

 

[Ivy]

There's no good gender-neutral pronoun in English. Many of the ways that people have come up with to neutralize terms just don't sound good. So a lot of people end up using "he" but really meaning "he or she."

I think the author of this article tried to address the gender thing by using "the person" in the first question and "he (or she)" in the second question:

1. Do you often feel used by the person?
2. Have you often felt that he (or she) doesn't care about you?

The rest do say "he" but starting with that gives an implied gender neutrality to the rest of the questions. It's not perfect, but at least the author tried to address it instead of just letting "he" stand for all people.

 

[Domino]

i've encountered psychopaths through working in the criminal justice system - i wouldn't call them 'everyday' psychopaths, as they're killers/rapists/predators. frankly, they're broken people with no redeeming qualities and respond poorly to all forms of criminal rehabilitation.

the clinically accepted behavioural manifestations that characterise psychopathy include:
consistent irresponsibility
remorselessness
persistent lying
repetitive offending/cruelty to people and animals since childhood

psychopathy is described by ICD 10 (international classification of diseases) as 'dissocial personality disorders,' which are determined by a disregard for prevailing social norms, persistent irritability and disordered conduct during childhood and adolescence.

interestingly, under australian law psychopathy cannot be put forward as an independent basis for pleading insanity. however, low impulse control associated with antisocial personality disorder may deprive a person of the power to reason with a moderate degree of sense re whether their conduct is wrong. provided there is medical evidence of low impulse control being a symptom of mental disease - a court may return an insanity verdict.

i've read studies that claim around 20 - 25% of the prison population are psychopaths. this is one of the reasons why sending low-level offenders to prison is a really stupid idea - they get to make friends with manipulative psychopaths.

What do you think is the difference between narcissists and sociopaths?

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

What do you think is the difference between narcissists and sociopaths?

I could look up and quote some of the definitions, but sociopaths tend to have more social charm and are greater risk takers than narcissists, in my understanding.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

What do you think is the difference between narcissists and sociopaths?

Quite a bit different, really.

That stuff about not finding fear unpleasant? I wouldn't say that applies to narcissists. I'd venture to guess that narcissists actually have a lot more in common with the typical human being than sociopaths do. Narcissistic behavior merely extends from a vast over-estimation of one's own importance, rather than such a radically different conception of how to live. The apparent results can be similar, but the cause is not the same.

EDIT: Another important thing. In a way, relationships are actually very important to narcissists and they are hyper-conscious of what people think of them. Their selfish behavior can be a compensatory act or a denial mechanism.

 

[Arclight]

There's no good gender-neutral pronoun in English.

I suppose "They" might work..

"Do they" instead of "does he"?

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Raging sociopath.

 

[Arclight]

The narcissistic voyeur.. This person stares at themselves in a mirror while peering around a corner, the whole time thinking "Come on.. Undress already , will ya?"

 

[Ivy]

I suppose "They" might work..

"Do they" instead of "does he"?

Informal language has adapted to use "they" as the go-to gender neutral singular pronoun, even though it's technically a plural pronoun. It's still grammatically incorrect, though, so it wouldn't make it through the editing process if it's written into an article.

 

[Athenian200]

Informal language has adapted to use "they" as the go-to gender neutral singular pronoun, even though it's technically a plural pronoun. It's still grammatically incorrect, though, so it wouldn't make it through the editing process if it's written into an article.

It's interesting to note that the word "they" seems to be following the same path as the word "you," though. Originally, "you" was plural, and "thou" was used for the singular case. Eventually, however, the distinction was lost, and now "you" is used regardless of number. The same thing may be happening with the word "they," in that it may come to be used in a singular way, leading the loss of "he" and "she."

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Information taken from the Encyclopedia of Mental Disorders at minddisorders.com


Narcissism
http://www.minddisorders.com/Kau-Nu/Narcissistic-personality-disorder.html
DSM-IV-TR specifies nine diagnostic criteria for NPD. For the clinician to make the diagnosis, an individual must fit five or more of the following descriptions:

* He or she has a grandiose sense of self-importance (exaggerates accomplishments and demands to be considered superior without real evidence of achievement).
* He or she lives in a dream world of exceptional success, power, beauty, genius, or "perfect" love.
* He or she thinks of him- or herself as "special" or privileged, and that he or she can only be understood by other special or high-status people.
* He or she demands excessive amounts of praise or admiration from others.
* He or she feels entitled to automatic deference, compliance , or favorable treatment from others.
* He or she is exploitative towards others and takes advantage of them.
* He or she lacks empathy and does not recognize or identify with others' feelings.
* He or she is frequently envious of others or thinks that they are envious of him or her.
* He or she "has an attitude" or frequently acts in haughty or arrogant ways.

In addition to these criteria, DSM-IV-TR groups NPD together with three other personality disorders in its so-called Cluster B. These four disorders are grouped together on the basis of symptom similarities, insofar as patients with these disorders appear to others as overly emotional, unstable, or self-dramatizing. The other three disorders in Cluster B are antisocial, borderline, and histrionic personality disorders.



Antisocial Personality Disorder [sociopathy, psychopathy as subtypes]
http://www.minddisorders.com/A-Br/Antisocial-personality-disorder.html
People diagnosed with APD in prison populations act as if they have no conscience. They move through society as predators, paying little attention to the consequences of their actions. They cannot understand feelings of guilt or remorse. Deceit and manipulation characterize their interpersonal relationships.

Men or women diagnosed with this personality disorder demonstrate few emotions beyond contempt for others. Their lack of empathy is often combined with an inflated sense of self-worth and a superficial charm that tends to mask an inner indifference to the needs or feelings of others. Some studies indicate people with APD can only mimic the emotions associated with committed love relationships and friendships that most people feel naturally...

The diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder is usually based on a combination of a careful medical as well as psychiatric history and an interview with the patient. The doctor will look for recurrent or repetitive patterns of antisocial behavior. He or she may use a diagnostic questionnaire for APD, such as the Hare Psychopathy Checklist, if the patient's history suggests the diagnosis. A person aged 18 years or older with a childhood history of disregard for the rights of others can be diagnosed as having APD if he or she gives evidence of three of the following seven behaviors associated with disregard for others:

* Fails to conform to social norms, as indicated by frequently performing illegal acts or pursuing illegal occupations.
* Deceives and manipulates others for selfish reasons, often in order to obtain money, sex, drugs or power. This behavior may involve repeated lying, conning or the use of false names.
* Fails to plan ahead or displays impulsive behavior, as indicated by a long succession of short-term jobs or frequent changes of address.
* Engages in repeated fights or assaults as a consequence of irritability and aggressiveness.
* Exhibits reckless disregard for safety of self or others.
* Shows a consistent pattern of irresponsible behavior, including failure to find and keep a job for a sustained length of time and refusal to pay bills or honor debts.
* Shows no evidence of sadness, regret or remorse for actions that have hurt others.

In order to meet DSM-IV-TR criteria for APD, a person must also have had some symptoms of conduct disorder before age 15. An adult 18 years or older who does not meet all the criteria for APD may be given a diagnosis of conduct disorder.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

^Above are the standard definitions, but I think the statistics and list of behaviors in the OP is from the book "The Sociopath Next Door". The above description is of those who get caught and end up in prison - the "unsuccessful" sociopath. The idea in the book by Martha Stout is that there are more than people traditional think and that many integrate into society as professionally successful even though they wreak havoc on the people they interact with personally. I don't know what the realistic statistics are about the presence of people with zero empathy and self-aggrandizement who function successfully in society, or even how those statistics could be gathered, but suspect such people are more present than often assumed. The ones with the greatest power like CEO of corporations (one mentioned earlier who left his wife at home without access to food), are not the unstable ones who end up in prison. Perhaps there should be distinct categories of disorders between the unstable street criminal and the white collar violence that is masked by financial and social status.

edit: This could by cynical of me, but my impression amongst the high ranking individuals in politics and corporations is that the percentages of having this type of inner distortion of self could be quite high. If a study showed as many as half of them having some notable degree of it I wouldn't be shocked, although it would more likely be less than that (definitely higher than the general population). I think there are disorders worse than what you see in the unstable criminal. Some of the high ranking violence requires are far greater degradation of personality imo.

 

[highlander]

Information taken from the Encyclopedia of Mental Disorders at minddisorders.com

Narcissism
http://www.minddisorders.com/Kau-Nu/Narcissistic-personality-disorder.html
DSM-IV-TR specifies nine diagnostic criteria for NPD. For the clinician to make the diagnosis, an individual must fit five or more of the following descriptions:

* He or she has a grandiose sense of self-importance (exaggerates accomplishments and demands to be considered superior without real evidence of achievement).
* He or she lives in a dream world of exceptional success, power, beauty, genius, or "perfect" love.
* He or she thinks of him- or herself as "special" or privileged, and that he or she can only be understood by other special or high-status people.
* He or she demands excessive amounts of praise or admiration from others.
* He or she feels entitled to automatic deference, compliance , or favorable treatment from others.
* He or she is exploitative towards others and takes advantage of them.
* He or she lacks empathy and does not recognize or identify with others' feelings.
* He or she is frequently envious of others or thinks that they are envious of him or her.
* He or she "has an attitude" or frequently acts in haughty or arrogant ways.

I've only known one person who fit this definition and the experience is recent. She was like a tornado - leaving a trail of damage in her wake. I was deceived initially because this person was very smart and very charming. It took me too long though to figure it out. I like to think the best of people and probably made excuses for her behavior instead of making a judgment call. What a nightmare. Sheesh! The thing I realized is there is absolutely nothing you can do with these types of people except to completely keep them out of your life.

Oh - And per Annwn's comments, she has had some level of professional success. She's an attorney and well known in her field. She is outgoing, charming, funny and knowledgeable - and a complete psycho.

 

[Rail Tracer]

Can't really think of any real psychopaths that I have run into in real life (online is a different story.)

Most of them that are even remotely close are... just strange. And...well...strange shouldn't really be constituted as a psychopath. I'm strange, you're strange, everyone is strange.

Otherwise, "In a mad world, only the mad are sane."

 

[sculpting]

I don't believe that sociopaths/psychopaths are evil, but are rather amoral. They lack both guilt (Fe), and an internal moral compass (Fi). They only have primitive, self-centered survival instincts. Like an animal, but with the intelligence of a human being.

I believe that instead of isolating these people and separating them from society, and leaving them to rot in prison, we should simply create a social role for identified sociopaths and psychopaths that forces them to contribute to society in order to avoid being subjected to something they consider undesirable, and to gain something they consider desirable. Since they're not emotionally similar to other people, they must be dealt with differently. We would need to apply rules to them that would seem extremely harsh, oppressive, and cruel if applied to a normal person, but which are justified in controlling/containing a psychopath.

I believe that we live among many of these people, and that due to their high intelligence, they have a lot to contribute if we can only harness their potential in a constructive way. Naturally, we cannot allow them to be trusted or valued by others, but they could be useful if forced to do tasks that require neither capacity.

I think this overall perspective is very interesting. As society becomes more fragmented it seems likely that children will not find the sort of support that allows them to form bonds normally and as a result a lack of bonding will be seen. If I recall correctly, america is the most individualistic country on the planet-we encourage putting ourselves before others in some sense.

dead end solutions seem rather pointless -like the death penalty or the label of EVIL. It may remove the person or isolate them, but given the equilibrium of society, another will quickly take their place. It doesnt seem effective and seems sort of pointless, although keeps an individual safe.

An interesting paper once noted that sociopathy is raised to rates of 20% in an inner city slum and that you could monitor the children over time and sees increases in cortisol earlier due to stress and then later see higher levels of testosterone in the males.

It seems to point to evolved mechanisms for survival-under times of stress and resource limitations-cheating the system seems to be an evolved advantage. You can cheat a bit and your kids survive because nobody notices. You cheat a lot and you get socially outcast. But as a social group becomes more destablized, stress increases, resources are limited and the way you survive is learning to game the systems around you and being self focused. Those who can treat the world like a game win. Society is sociopathic.

Now imagine a kid raised in an unstable family-the same stress is felt, the same hormonal cascade set in effect-and you end up with an isolated event of sociopathy rather than the whole social structure being "sociopathic". I find it very interesting to note that children of different personality types would take very different paths under this sort of stress and lack of stable bond formation. All end up "fucked up" but the external look will differ.

What to do? Outside of the EVIL label? I dunno. I do know that the guy I knew with NPD and the girl who verged on sociopathic selfishness both got along perfectly-their patterns could not match society, but they did match each other-thus were "normal" to one another. Who gets to own the definition of normal...

 

[nolla]

An interesting paper once noted that sociopathy is raised to rates of 20% in an inner city slum and that you could monitor the children over time and sees increases in cortisol earlier due to stress and then later see higher levels of testosterone in the males.

It seems to point to evolved mechanisms for survival-under times of stress and resource limitations-cheating the system seems to be an evolved advantage. You can cheat a bit and your kids survive because nobody notices. You cheat a lot and you get socially outcast. But as a social group becomes more destablized, stress increases, resources are limited and the way you survive is learning to game the systems around you and being self focused. Those who can treat the world like a game win. Society is sociopathic.

Very interesting. Makes sense too. I tend to connect many problems to too high level of individualism in the society, and now I can do the same with sociopaths Thanks!

 

[Mole]

Gaming with all the pride of an obedient child.

the way you survive is learning to game the systems around you and being self focused. Those who can treat the world like a game win. Society is sociopathic.

What is sad, even tragic, is the number of members who treat MBTI as a game.

It is normal here to game MBTI. And why not? MBTI is gaming us. It claims to be a personality test, where the most minimal research will show this is a lie. It's a lie like the Tonkin Gulf Incident and the Weapons of Mass Destruction and the lie that the drones are killing the Taliban in Pakistan.

When we have been so thoroughly gamed for so long, it is only natural to game in return. The price however is our humanity.

What is frightening is how normal it is to game here. It's as though gaming is taken for granted. Some are proud of their gaming ability and even boast of it. They game with all the pride of an obedient child.

 

[MacGuffin]

Posts "first!" comments on Internet sites

lol

I always wondered who did that.

 

[Rex]

http://www.policeone.com/edp/articles/91372-Psychopath-or-an-INTJ-whos-gone-to-the-dark-side-Part-2/

i can`t find the next part. The interogation. Right now i can`t even find the first part. What a crappy internett page.

Btw: the US army looks for pscyopaths i believe as they dont`t get traumas and so on.

Its also a nice way of getting rid of them.
Also puts them to good use and keeping them away from sosical lifes so they do not develop manipulation skills.