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  1. #91
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    I've just read a book by the person behind this site. Dr. George K Simon. He has an interessting take on "the everyday psykopath" and calls them covert aggressive. The difference between a psykopath/sociopath is that the covert aggressive ones tends to stick to the law while a sociopath has no regard for any kind of rules. The sociopath may have covert aggressive traits tho, so I guess the labels are to some extent overlapping.

    "Covert-aggressive personalities do their best to appear benign on the surface and to veil all their aggressive agendas. Their use of tactics to conceal their aggressive intentions while simultaneously getting the better of others makes them one of the most manipulative personalities." ~ Dr. George K Simon

  2. #92
    Senior Member jimrckhnd's Avatar
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    I always assume that most psychopaths end up in upper management positions. It explains alot and it has the advantage of keeping me on my toes around them.
    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

  3. #93
    Senior Member uncommonentity's Avatar
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    No-one's a psychopath if you're not a victim. As in nature those that are at the lower end of the food chain will always be eaten. Knowledge saves.
    Veni, Vidi, Cessi.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aibell View Post
    I've just read a book by the person behind this site. Dr. George K Simon. He has an interessting take on "the everyday psykopath" and calls them covert aggressive. The difference between a psykopath/sociopath is that the covert aggressive ones tends to stick to the law while a sociopath has no regard for any kind of rules. The sociopath may have covert aggressive traits tho, so I guess the labels are to some extent overlapping.

    "Covert-aggressive personalities do their best to appear benign on the surface and to veil all their aggressive agendas. Their use of tactics to conceal their aggressive intentions while simultaneously getting the better of others makes them one of the most manipulative personalities." ~ Dr. George K Simon
    Psychopath = Ted Bundy.

    "Hi, I'm an attractive, charming law student. Can you help me carry my books since I broke my leg?" *chops woman up in van*

    Of course all psychopaths aren't that murderous, but I think they remain in the gene pool because of their amazing ability for "normalcy" and "blending in" and even in some cases extraordinary charisma.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aibell View Post
    I've just read a book by the person behind this site. Dr. George K Simon. He has an interessting take on "the everyday psykopath" and calls them covert aggressive. The difference between a psykopath/sociopath is that the covert aggressive ones tends to stick to the law while a sociopath has no regard for any kind of rules. The sociopath may have covert aggressive traits tho, so I guess the labels are to some extent overlapping.

    "Covert-aggressive personalities do their best to appear benign on the surface and to veil all their aggressive agendas. Their use of tactics to conceal their aggressive intentions while simultaneously getting the better of others makes them one of the most manipulative personalities." ~ Dr. George K Simon
    ENTJs aren't that bad...

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by earthtrekker1775 View Post
    Could you trust the MBTI of a sociopath? Would they be more likely to manipulate the results either to conceal their nature or just to entertain themselves/ mental masturbation? I have been curious about whether or not certain types are more commonly represented in populations like prison, cereal killers, politicians etc. Looking around the real world it seems evident that the inmates are running the asylum. I have met sociopaths and I get a strong gut reaction from them. I then make it my duty to warn/protect their SO, social circle, or other target of their parasitism.
    Prisons aren't as populated with sociopaths as one might think. The majority of people hounded by the justice system are those who were pushed to the brink or dumbasses. If sociopaths occupy a higher plain of intelligence and lack affect, then they can endure the forces that would compel most to break the law and calculate the consequences of their actions in ways tailored to their self-preservation. Even Hannibal Lector was useful and cunning in the grander scheme of things.

  7. #97
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Sociopaths are more rule abiding, having a lower need for excitability. Psychopaths share the lack of brain activity and neurons in the empathy regions, but have a much higher need for excitability.

    I would be very hesitant to tag someone as a sociopath based on the list of behaviors in the OP. There are many people with various disorders that share these behaviors and it has little to do with biological empathic capacity. The reason that we find a link in nurture and deviant actions is more often than not - because some people can become so emotionally damaged that they truly *feel* that society owes them, that they have been screwed over, and that it is fair to push back because everyone else has more, has it easier, etc. You can see this description in a few of the enneagrams unhealthy levels. This doesn't mean that they lack the capacity to be empathetic.. all the biological functioning is there, they simply lack the ability to understand anothers perspective because they are so overwhelmed and driven through negative emotional backdrop and reaction. VERY different from those that have low neural activity in the inferior parietal cortex and the superior temproal gyrus.

    Irony: "sociopaths should all be rounded up and gassed or shot!" LOL - WTF is that?

    Many researchers fall into the nature camp on empathy. It is NOT a learned responce, it is inherent. While growing up in a loving and supporting environment would certainly reinforce differing perspectives, it will not determine the natural capacity. Sociopaths can and have grown up in very good environments only to go on to use and abuse everything that falls in their path, while others have been born into the most heinous of circumstances.. and become social workers, elderly care takers, animal activist, blah blah.

    One might consider how blended the environmental link is to the biological link. If emapthy is developed in the womb (and research supports this) then many of those lacking empathy are quite possibly being born to parents who lack empathy, thus more likely born into homes of abuse and neglect. I would still be extremely weary of tagging anyone as sociopathic based on any kind of behavior.

    The biggest question (imo) is how accountable can we expect someone to be when they are born like this? TO be born with no empathy. Many of us can't even fathom what this would look like, how we might act, how me might view the world. I would go so far as to say that being this different would pose tremendous difficulty in adapting to society and require one to be very intelligent indeed, especially if they have avoided the lower end criminal nets.

    No, I don't think these people are in-human at all. Empathy isn't even exclusive to humans as research reveals animals (including rats) having some degree of it.

    I echo others sentiments in that understanding sociopaths and finding use or value in for them in some guarded fashion would be the best route. We don't kill people for having any other disability or abnormality.. why would we view sociopaths differently? Because some of them are intelligent? It seems that everyone here understands intellectual intelligence =/= emotional intelligence. We are basically talking about the emotionally retarded here. Society has generally embraced supporting the intellectually or physically weak, yet we wan't to demonize those with emotional weakness? I just don't understand this line of thought at all.

    As far as wanting to keep sociopaths out of your life, I think that is a personal decision and wise in the "what works and what doesn't" aspect. But what about "unconditional love?" Do we only love people for what they give back to us? What they bring to us? Is it impossible to love someone simply for who they are.. even if that encompasses emotional retardation?

    Another thought that comes to mind is that alot of new-age literature seems to believe that as human consciousness evolves we are seeing a much higher empath-population being born. I don't know if I believe this or its just us valuing thus recognizing these qualities more now. But it would follow that if empathy IS biologically determined, and IF empathy is needed for the continuing of the species, those with higher empathy (being people focused) would be inclined to mate easier, thus pro-create easier, and also stick in family units longer, ensuring the stability and growth of the family unit and life. So perhaps we just all need to get smart in recognizing sociopaths and stop fucking them. They might naturally wipe themselves out of the gene pool. =D
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  8. #98
    Senior Member jimrckhnd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by earthtrekker1775 View Post
    I have met sociopaths and I get a strong gut reaction from them. I then make it my duty to warn/protect their SO, social circle, or other target of their parasitism.
    I'm curious - how can you be sure that you are correct that these people are sociopaths and not people you just have a natural antipathy for? Not suggesting you haven't I'm just wondering how you can be sure and thus be certain of the accuracy of your gut reaction. The reason I ask is - is it possible that some people develop an ability to spot these types of personalities as an evolutionary adaptation? It seems reasonable that in a primitive situation where cooperation was essential and life was balanced on a knife edge in the best of times having a sociopath in the primary group could be a serious problem.

    I'm very intrigued about your talent. If you are inclined I'd be curious to hear more about it.
    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Even Hannibal Lector was useful and cunning in the grander scheme of things.
    Hannibal Lector is a fanciful fictional composite of several serial killers. From my research on their personalities, they actually are not extraordinary people at all, but what is most striking about them is their nearly bland ability to embrace "normality" and to present traits which utterly blend in to the backdrop.

    Many do have very high intelligence though which is what allows them to plan out their elaborate "hobby."

  10. #100
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    - psychopath and sociopath are different. psychopath is completely genetic. their amygdalae just don't work; sociopath is caused by psychological trauma or extremely adverse circumstances. sociopath also comes in varying degrees.
    - there are probably more than 1% of women who are psychopaths if 3-4% of men are. they probably are just harder to spot
    - none of the traits listed in the OP are exclusive to psychopaths or sociopaths. in fact, the majority of people with each of these traits individually are probably not psychopaths or sociopaths, therefore I think it's good as a tentative sign at best

    *I think sociopaths can also become mentally healthy like most people but still retain being a sociopath. this is just my thoughts though
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