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  1. #21
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    I almost didn't see the happy face and started feeling sad inside



    Seriously.



    But now it's more as I shall get you in future....
    Haha. No worries. I haven't even read this thread.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Roger Mexico's Avatar
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    You could always believe in a thing called love.
    "Chase after the truth like all hell and you'll free yourself, even if you never touch its coattails."
    --Clarence Darrow

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Sometimes the journey is more fulfilling than the destination. (Cliche I know, but it's true.) A few years ago what I did is try to see where I might have a great interest and do a small trial. I took a couple of courses and tried a variety of different things as hobbies and mostly I found things that I did not want to commit to more. But at the same time I was glad that I didn't make a bigger commitment to these things, because it would have been a waste of time and money.
    Yes, I did believe that the journey was more important than the destination. The journey feels rather lonely lately, and I don't like feeling so lost. Perhaps, I can learn to enjoy these feelings again. I used to enjoy both my solitude and my own open ended-ness. Somehow, all-of-a-sudden, I received a strange sense of urgency that I have not been able to let-go for a while. I suppose, I just got sick off the "outsider" role, and haven't been able to go back to liking that role again.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Ultimately I did discover some important things though. 1) No job or hobby (or whatever) is worth putting ahead of your family. This may be different for people who have truly found their calling, but I doubt it. 2) Whatever dream job I have will inevitably involve me working for myself (or possibly having employees with me at the head). So instead of going for a job that will fulfill me at work I went with a job that I can live with and will pay a lot so I can work toward financial independence. It will still take at least a decade for me to get there (probably longer), but that is the best plan that I have.
    I get along reasonably well with my family. But even among them, I feel out of place. I often feel like the family odd-ball, but not in as "cute" a way as my little brother is. Though, I suppose all of us are odd in our own ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hexis View Post
    Im content with the pursuit of happieness. I seem to never stop makeing goals for myself, if I reach a point in my life in which I thought id be content with before then I will find even other ways to improve my life. And thus never stoping the pursuit of my happiness, so in a sense you can say I will never be truly happy. Kind of a sad thought but its what I feel is my purpose here, all means justify the ends epsicially if those ends lead to my happiness.
    Maybe just accepting a certain level of dissatisfaction is something I will need to do. I was hoping, it would improve with time. I don't want to be ignoring any signals I'm getting from my psyche. I got pangs of this when I accepted a full-time offer where I am working now. I was set to go straight for Master's and ph.D. but was promised opportunities to work on cutting-edge things. I often wonder what would have happened if I had headed those signals. I would be a post-doc at this time, and perhaps have other issues to deal with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Ygolo, to respond in seriousness, there are a variety of paths one can pursue in the name of having a reason to wake up in the morning. (Career, family, etc.) However, mankind has a built-in need for spiritual fulfillment. Religions, philosophers, psychologists and even scientists have put forth a myriad of theories as to why this is; what's pertinent to this thread is simply that it is the case.

    While I acknowledge that part of my psyche, I'm opposed to religion in general and have yet to come upon a good outlet for that psychological function. I don't know you personally and have only a vague sense of what your stance on religion is, but I believe there are similarities in our present positions.

    If you ever hit upon a good course of action, PMs are welcome.
    I think we do have similar positions. I am one of the many "spiritual but not religious."

    It is actually rather annoying. I would much rather not have the need I mentioned. It would make life a lot easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcearos View Post
    I don't like not having a goal to reach for. So, we are almost in same situation, both looking for a sense of direction for our lives. I wish I could help you with finding your thing in this life but I cannot because I don't even know my own purpose here.
    That's part of the reason I posted the OP. Often, what is most personal is what is most universal. I wasn't expecting anyone to provide an "answer?" I was just fishing to make sure I wasn't alone (though I knew I wasn't intellectually).

    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    You probably should have mentioned that lol I'd have said first thing's first and become better at the language and learn the customs. I'm sure there are places you can go to, such as centres to help immigrants or teach language classes etc. Depending on where it is you now reside, you can find some for free. If you tell me which city/town, I can try to find online a place close to you if available and you can do it yourself too. I have similiar experiences of uncertainty even in my very own extremely Multicultral city (Toronto). Certain places you go here can make you feel a little out of place but it's the people who make you feel comfortable. I don't know your ethnicity but surely you're not the only one? If you can find others from your ethnicity/country, perhaps they have centres/places/festivals where you can meet and learn from them on how to better adapt.
    I meant it metaphorically, not actually. (Though I have experienced it in real life.) I have often felt like an "alien" in human society, however. That is a different matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    I won't go into a religious debate here but I will say that I am not religious. I am very spiritual. You can have people who are religious and spiritual/faithful and you can have people who are religious but not spiritual/faithful. Religious faith, itself, is not spiritual/faith because organised religions and religious books are systems and tools used to help people believe in them thus people making it real for them. As with all spirituality. People make it real for them. I'm not saying it isn't real, mind. If parents didn't raise their kids into religion/spirituality, what are the chances of religion ever being used/surviving or of the children 'making' it real for them or understanding it as such? So, to me and others, there's a difference. And I hate to sound so arrogant but that's what I think you're admiring. That people can still remain spiritual and can act it with good morals etc. We are beings who can understand or perceive spirituality but we can also do it without being told what to believe in as because we have consciousness we try to understand not only ourselves and others but why we exist anyway. It's just naturally to want to know the difference between instinctual animals and instinctual humans with the ability of perception. I'll be more optimistic with religion than I normally am and say that people created these tools/systems in the hopes of guiding people into being better people aside from worshiping a deity.

    As I don't know your religious background, aside from my advice on learning the language/customs, perhaps what you should also do is seek religious counselling since you said you 'wish' you had more faith. Saying you wish, to me, implies you really want it. If it's another important thing for you to do, then you should try to reconnect if it makes you feel more at peace with yourself. To speak on Jen's behalf, though I may be wrong (sorry Jen!), to help with what you didn't understand when she said 'believe in yourself'. She meant to 'have faith and trust' in yourself and it's not about 'towards some end' as you thought. And it's also as I said in that you know yourself best or have the ability to so look within yourself and find your answers by trusting yourself. You also said to The Liquid Laser that you 'need to believe' in what you are doing. But before you can do, you must 'be'. So, in other words, before you can believe in what you are doing, you must believe/trust in who you are and trust that that will guide you into knowing and believing what you want to do.
    That's something, "just being." that I have heard often. Perhaps it is a lack of spiritual perception, bit I don't know how to do it. When I am trying to "just be," I get filled with a sense of urgency, a feeling that I am not where I am supposed to be or doing what I am supposed to be doing. Perhaps part of it is because I have too much on my plate. But when I try to make sure that I have very few obligations and responsibility, I also feel that same sense of urgency. A sense that I am neglecting my duty somehow.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    I read you're 28 so you are still very young and have a lot of time ahead of yourself. If you're stuck in a rut, you have to move outside of that rut even if you feel unsure. You can't know anything different about where you are until you can go outside and peer at it. Too many people remain fixed or in a rut because they're afraid or unsure on where to go next. Sometimes it takes a few mistakes or trials of errors before discovering what it is you want or where you want to go or who it is you are or who it is you want to be.

    Edit: I know it's hard for Introverts as we look mainly within ourselves to figure things out before apply what we know or want in the external world. I can't speak for all or for INTPs such as yourself but it takes heed to do the Extraverted way of gettin' out to roam a bit. You can think all you want about it after.... Even after plenty of mistakes....I know...horror.
    Yeah, the "getting-out-of-my-rut" impulse is what I call my sense-of-urgency. I am not sure why it come in that form, but it prompts me to try different things, but usually, there is no "trying," whenever there is an increase in activity, there is also an increase in expectations and responsibilities. When the expectations increase, I start to feel out of place again.

    This leads me to want to clear my plate of responsibility, which then makes me feel the sense of urgency again.

    I would like to balance or otherwise "resolve" these two psychic forces: My sense-of-urgency and my feelings of inadequacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    Your Sig is:
    So, lastly, maybe you should just try to "live" right now and take it as it comes (I know, horror). Not just enjoy living but not to worry/stress so much about it and accept the past failures and build up on them. Don't like how you're living? That's great! Why don't you like it? Data-delete what you don't like and input someting better. Is it the environment or hardware/home? Move and or get a new home. I know it's 'easier said than done' but change takes both time and sometimes money and if you're serious, then you may need to do either or both. People/friends will be a big help too for support and comfort (so go make them or grab the ones you do have). But it'll probably be a lot more time that you need and that's okay b/c Time is eternal and never stops even after we die! (well, it doesn't exist, it's a human way of perceiving chronological events in order to systematize them into our understanding but nvm that...)/Edit

    Btw, I'm not exactly stuck in a rut but I'm completely throwing away my expected degree as I've learned a few things on what I want to do with my life and what I'd like to add to my knowledge. It lasted quite a few months of being in a HUGE wasting-away in saddness-rut (part of it is due to illness and being sad failed surgies/treatments too) and making previous errors (i.e wasting money) by trying to just do 'anything' in the hopes I'd figure it out. I've never been comfortable not knowing where I'm going so I took time off to do just that, even with my rut, and now I have a little more faith/belief/trust in myself even though I'm not 100% sure as of yet . So, do whatever it is you need/want/all that we said and apply it. Maybe even re-do some of the stuff you already tried but do it differently (or find different places with different people who can help you as some are more capable and some are more suitable for YOU in understanding what it is you need.)

    /Therapy session
    My sig. is a quote I head that appealed to me. In many ways, that is what I want to do. It is an ideal I hold in high regard, but fall rather short-off. In many ways, I am the last person who can say honestly "I accept the past, live for the present, and look forward to the future." But it is something I identified as being crucial. I use the signature as a sort of command to myself.

    I didn't post looking for a therapy session. Though I appreciate the advice, I simply thought it would be elucidating to see how people dealt with their own needs for having a unique purpose.

    Nothing is more true to a person than their own experiences. I thought what I was feeling was somewhat endemic of the modern human condition. I think, I was right.

    I often think that maybe our uniqueness comes in ways that cannot be expressed in words. We all have circumstances that are a little different from each other, we all have desires and fears different from everyone else.

    However, despite all our modern successes, it seems like now more than ever, people are loosing their sense of purpose. Somehow, it seems like the modern world makes it seem like you can just buy or trade for what you want or need. But it has too many "packaged deals," "feature-rich" products, that it becomes hard to obtain the simple basic "raw" stuff you want or need.

    How hard is it to make friends who are more than just activity partners for most of your life?

    How hard is it for people to meet and talk about anything or everything with total strangers in real life these days?

    As humans, we help each other in difficult situations, but as modern humans we need very little of that sort of "practical" help. We are more independent financially, more interdependent economically, and more isolated spiritually than we have ever been before. jmo.

    [/rambling]

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Mexico View Post
    You could always believe in a thing called love.
    Yes. Yes, I suppose I could.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  4. #24
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    That's part of the reason I posted the OP. Often, what is most personal is what is most universal. I wasn't expecting anyone to provide an "answer?" I was just fishing to make sure I wasn't alone (though I knew I wasn't intellectually).
    You are not alone.

  5. #25
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I get along reasonably well with my family. But even among them, I feel out of place. I often feel like the family odd-ball, but not in as "cute" a way as my little brother is. Though, I suppose all of us are odd in our own ways.
    By family I referring more to spouse and children. This may be the type of thing you are looking for. If so I wouldn't rush into anything, but it also doesn't hurt to actively look (assuming you know what you are looking for). It certainly is nice when you have found a person that you are compatible with.
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  6. #26
    Resident Snot-Nose GZA's Avatar
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    I need some kind of work to believe in. I'm sick of high school, most of the work is stuff I have no interest in and I don't always do amazing in it. I need work that makes me WANT to do it that matters to me. How the hell am I going to find that?

    In other words, I totally sympathize with you and I think this is a nearly universal thing that I struggle with as well.

    So far the one thing I have unconditionally is guitar. I play guitar a lot and I love it. If you take it away from me, I'll kill you. I can't remember what its like to not play guitar and have disguisting blistery fingers. The more disguisting and blistered the callous, the better. *drools*

    I think the key is probably to look at some things that interest you and try them out. Not just once, but stick to them for a bit. I know that learning guitar the first year or two isn't great because its kind of hard and tedious to learn the actual theory stuff that becomes essential later on, but sticking to it was a great decision.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I meant it metaphorically, not actually. (Though I have experienced it in real life.) I have often felt like an "alien" in human society, however. That is a different matter.
    Dammit lolol Oh yea, I'm an alien too! It's so much fun, though! Make it fun!

    That's something, "just being." that I have heard often. Perhaps it is a lack of spiritual perception, bit I don't know how to do it. When I am trying to "just be," I get filled with a sense of urgency, a feeling that I am not where I am supposed to be or doing what I am supposed to be doing. Perhaps part of it is because I have too much on my plate. But when I try to make sure that I have very few obligations and responsibility, I also feel that same sense of urgency. A sense that I am neglecting my duty somehow.
    I've actually never thought of 'just being' as involving spirituality or lacktherof. It's just a state of not worrying what tomorrow will bring.

    Yeah, the "getting-out-of-my-rut" impulse is what I call my sense-of-urgency. I am not sure why it come in that form, but it prompts me to try different things, but usually, there is no "trying," whenever there is an increase in activity, there is also an increase in expectations and responsibilities. When the expectations increase, I start to feel out of place again.

    This leads me to want to clear my plate of responsibility, which then makes me feel the sense of urgency again.

    I would like to balance or otherwise "resolve" these two psychic forces: My sense-of-urgency and my feelings of inadequacy.
    Oiii you are a bundle of various nerves, aren't you? I think, though, that getting out of the rut doesn't have to stem from urgency but can come from a quiet deliberation as well. Perhaps, if you found such a quiet deliberation to venture forth with, it won't become a sense of urgency? The question is how to get you in the Middle Path lol

    My sig. is a quote I head that appealed to me. In many ways, that is what I want to do. It is an ideal I hold in high regard, but fall rather short-off. In many ways, I am the last person who can say honestly "I accept the past, live for the present, and look forward to the future." But it is something I identified as being crucial. I use the signature as a sort of command to myself.
    You seem so harsh on yourself

    I didn't post looking for a therapy session. Though I appreciate the advice, I simply thought it would be elucidating to see how people dealt with their own needs for having a unique purpose.
    I was teasing myself more than asserting I was thera....py...ing you

    Nothing is more true to a person than their own experiences. I thought what I was feeling was somewhat endemic of the modern human condition. I think, I was right.
    Why, of course. You aren't that priviledged to be the only one

    I often think that maybe our uniqueness comes in ways that cannot be expressed in words. We all have circumstances that are a little different from each other, we all have desires and fears different from everyone else.

    However, despite all our modern successes, it seems like now more than ever, people are loosing their sense of purpose. Somehow, it seems like the modern world makes it seem like you can just buy or trade for what you want or need. But it has too many "packaged deals," "feature-rich" products, that it becomes hard to obtain the simple basic "raw" stuff you want or need.
    Blame societal media influence and consumerism culture and the strictly kept in place ignorance of the masses + lack of education, or if educated, lack of comprehension instead of mere memorizing of info. Though not all ascribe to such ploys. I hope at least .05% don't...

    How hard is it to make friends who are more than just activity partners for most of your life?

    How hard is it for people to meet and talk about anything or everything with total strangers in real life these days?
    You're telling me I've been hunting for my "kindred" friends since I was a kid and have yet to find them but I still have hope!

    I find it amusing you say that about strangers as I get a plethora of strangers, of all types, who just converse with me and talk about anything or everything (sometimes I try to escape after 'a while of being be polite' in listening).

    As humans, we help each other in difficult situations, but as modern humans we need very little of that sort of "practical" help. We are more independent financially, more interdependent economically, and more isolated spiritually than we have ever been before. jmo.

    [/rambling]
    True that we are 'more' on those fronts but it's also that people are more interdependent or interconnected with each other in terms of bridging cultures and fashions and mannerisms and trying to "fit" in (not that it's a good thing but it shows people are still needing each other to fill some kind of misplaced void).

    /rambling

  8. #28
    Senior Member developer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Anything solid I can believe I can make a lifelong pursuit. Something that is somehow both a contribution and somehow unique to myself.

    Does anyone else have the same sort of need?

    Has anyone found something like that for themselves?
    If so, what is it?
    I have been very lucky to find something early on in my professional life that I really enjoy and that fulfills me, insofar as it allows me to make good use of my abilities, enjoy good company, and contribute something useful. Over the years, my role in this endeavour has changed from rookie to expert to executive, but for me the important thing still is the essence of the profession (or as Billy Joel sings: "it's still rock'n roll to me"), and I care very little about rank and title as long as I can have fun doing what I do.

    I looked up your personal profile, and you seem to be at an age where changing jobs within or between comanies is still very easy. Maybe you would like to think about doing something more challenging than what you are doing now ?

  9. #29
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Anything solid I can believe I can make a lifelong pursuit. Something that is somehow both a contribution and somehow unique to myself.

    Does anyone else have the same sort of need?

    Has anyone found something like that for themselves?
    If so, what is it?
    I'm afraid I don't have an answer - other than the cliche others have mentioned on looking within yourself. :rolli: Which is a totally unhelpful suggestion, and the act of doing this is very hard and it might take quite a long time to make some headway....

    Anyway, as far as me personally, I am of the opinion that I am a bit fickle, and I have tucked away in the back of my head the belief that what I need and desire NOW is probably not going to be what I need or desire X years down the line.

    Therefore I am not one to hold much stock in a 'lifelong pursuit' of something concrete and tangible. My 'lifelong pursuit' seems to be more of a flow - just a general desire to gain wisdom over time, seize opportunities, and pursue things as they come to me, and whenever the inspiration does hit me. This too takes time, and one of my overall current frustrations, that is relevant to this topic, is that while I'm pretty happy right now, I have no idea what my 'next step' in life is going to be. That is unsettling for me, but I also know that these things can take time.

    However, this is probably very much my personality, as I've observed that other people CAN and DO in fact find something that they can latch onto and pursue quite happily and vigilantly and successfully, and make a lifetime of it.

    You state you want something that is both a contribution and something that is unique to yourself. To me, that is a pretty solid start. What type of contribution/impact do you wish to make? If you can pinpoint in what manner you want to contribute, you can then target that -- whether it's something outside of work, or something that is work-related. Something unique to you? Well, again, that boils down to your own sense of identity, and who you want to be and who you want to become.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  10. #30
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    why is there a need to believe in anything? happiness can be found in the saving grace of understanding even in the truest form of reality

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