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T's and Openness to Others

Thalassa

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Something that I have noticed on this forum is that some Ts are much more open/warm/trusting than others, some more social, etc and often this is explained away by extraversion or saying they are more balanced on T/F or were socialized to be emotional because of being female...

But it appears sometimes that there are people who are using the Thinker banner to excuse away things that might actually be caused by not trusting people, being afraid to give and receive love, self-loathing, low self-esteem, or abusive behavior to others that is most likely caused by some emotional source, not just because they're being level and rational.

I know there is a difference and that Thinkers are just more rational and decide with their head instead of their heart, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about "normal" intellectual detachment or being straight-forward instead of using flowery, emotional speech. I'm talking about people who are so distant or mean that I suspect it not because of being a Thinker.

Thoughts?
 

Amethyst

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But it appears sometimes that there are people who are using the Thinker banner to excuse away things that might actually be caused by not trusting people, being afraid to give and receive love, self-loathing, low self-esteem, or abusive behavior to others that is most likely caused by some emotional source, not just because they're being level and rational.

Uh-oh....someone's on to me...:shock: :laugh:

Awkwardly enough, I was thinking about this recently as to whether I say I'm a T because I'd probably be a really crappy F that finds rational excuses to avoid a large portion of people, or that my way of rationalizing is being altered due to my extreme fears. :shrug:
 

gromit

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I think I know what you're saying, how some of them just seem pretty mean. I probably just don't engage with those people on here (and in RL, if I can help it).

SCARY.


(p.s. tawanda, I've never felt that way about you)
 

Andy

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Something that I have noticed on this forum is that some Ts are much more open/warm/trusting than others, some more social, etc and often this is explained away by extraversion or saying they are more balanced on T/F or were socialized to be emotional because of being female...

But it appears sometimes that there are people who are using the Thinker banner to excuse away things that might actually be caused by not trusting people, being afraid to give and receive love, self-loathing, low self-esteem, or abusive behavior to others that is most likely caused by some emotional source, not just because they're being level and rational.

I know there is a difference and that Thinkers are just more rational and decide with their head instead of their heart, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about "normal" intellectual detachment or being straight-forward instead of using flowery, emotional speech. I'm talking about people who are so distant or mean that I suspect it not because of being a Thinker.

Thoughts?

It's often struck me that people frequently use function theory as a means of self justification rather than to expand their understanding. I think this is one more example of that.
 

Randomnity

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The "nicer" Ts are usually the older ones and especially the older (than teens/20s or so) women. The real jerks are almost always immature teen/20s boys with a few girls thrown in. Haven't learned social skills yet (and/or don't care), I suspect, but that's not really an excuse. I see a similar thing with a few older Fs (they seem more level headed and rational)

And yes, some use "T" as an excuse, just as others use "F" as an excuse (and the other letters).
 

rav3n

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Something that I have noticed on this forum is that some Ts are much more open/warm/trusting than others, some more social
But marm, these are feeler values. Isn't this similar to Thinkers saying, "Something that I have noticed on this forum is that some Fs are much more rational/objective/logical than others, some less needy, etc."?
 

Qlip

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Yeah, I know what you mean. But you know, T's have just as much emotion, they just don't really like to deal with them because they don't hold any validity in their 'reasoning' universe. Some are more allergic to others. And due to things like sympathy and empathy and you know, human contact, they end up feeling emotions and it pisses them off if they haven't come to terms with their own. I think Feeling doesn't have to do so much work to deal with emotion, it doesn't (necessarily) need any rationalization to fit it in a frame work. Some T's frameworks are broken and haven't left any room for real, and their own, human illogicality.
 

FakePlasticAlice

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It's often struck me that people frequently use function theory as a means of self justification rather than to expand their understanding. I think this is one more example of that.

I couldn't agree more. I say this because i've done this when i first discovered MBTI, my thoughts being something along the lines of "oh! so that's why i'm this way...well this is me, can't help it! mbti says so." But as i decided i was being, for lack of a better term, a moron.. i delved much further into MBTI, function theory and all that jazz (my knowledge base being nowhere near most people's on here). What i discovered were ways to better communicate with certain people in my life based on their type, causing me to be much more patient and understanding (especially with my ISTP). I have also, temporarily, labeled myself an unhealthy INFJ..i have a lot of work to do on myself, but being aware of the functions and how i use them, and also how to use them in order to be healthy and happy has opened up a huge opportunity for positive change in my life, which i am already seeing within my internal dialogue.
While i am an F replying to this thread..i'm sure the exact same can be said for T's.
 

IZthe411

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The "nicer" Ts are usually the older ones and especially the older (than teens/20s or so) women. The real jerks are almost always immature teen/20s boys with a few girls thrown in. Haven't learned social skills yet (and/or don't care), I suspect, but that's not really an excuse. I see a similar thing with a few older Fs (they seem more level headed and rational)

And yes, some use "T" as an excuse, just as others use "F" as an excuse (and the other letters).

This. Although I'll qualify it with using 'experience' as a determining factor over age. I know some people who are older than me but are still stuck in how they perceive things to be and feel that everyone sees the world as they do, or should see it.

I was actually having this discussion with him on Monday night, so it's interesting to come and read it in this thread.
 

Randomnity

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Oh yes, I didn't mean to imply that all older Ts/Fs/whatever are like that, by any stretch (not all the banned people have been younguns either), just that it's fairly rare to see in the younger ones, since many of them haven't developed adequate social skills yet (I count myself more in that category than not :cheese:)
 

Amethyst

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(p.s. tawanda, I've never felt that way about you)

Haha, thanks. I'm glad I don't come off that way, which probably means that feeling is too deep to express. I wouldn't say I'm abusive or anything, but I really don't trust people and I'm afraid of love to possibly unhealthy levels. :p
 

Thalassa

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But marm, these are feeler values. Isn't this similar to Thinkers saying, "Something that I have noticed on this forum is that some Fs are much more rational/objective/logical than others, some less needy, etc."?

But it's true. Some feelers are more rational, objective, and logical than others. You're not one of the ones I would include in what I'm describing in the OP, anyway. You're actually one of the warmer ones. :D
 

Thalassa

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Haha, thanks. I'm glad I don't come off that way, which probably means that feeling is too deep to express. I wouldn't say I'm abusive or anything, but I really don't trust people and I'm afraid of love to possibly unhealthy levels. :p

You're cool Tawanda.
 

Thalassa

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I couldn't agree more. I say this because i've done this when i first discovered MBTI, my thoughts being something along the lines of "oh! so that's why i'm this way...well this is me, can't help it! mbti says so." But as i decided i was being, for lack of a better term, a moron.. i delved much further into MBTI, function theory and all that jazz (my knowledge base being nowhere near most people's on here). What i discovered were ways to better communicate with certain people in my life based on their type, causing me to be much more patient and understanding (especially with my ISTP). I have also, temporarily, labeled myself an unhealthy INFJ..i have a lot of work to do on myself, but being aware of the functions and how i use them, and also how to use them in order to be healthy and happy has opened up a huge opportunity for positive change in my life, which i am already seeing within my internal dialogue.
While i am an F replying to this thread..i'm sure the exact same can be said for T's.

I agree with this, and personally as an NF I've been working on being more logical and objective, and seperating feelings from ethics. Apparently I'm able to do so to a point that some people have suggested I seem ExTP-ish at times, and another person said I was "too emotionally controlled" to be a 4. I take those things as complements, because I know that this definitely has not been always the case and it's something I've had to consciously develop, and that I am definitely still working on.

We all have our issues. I just think that perhaps there are some who use "I'm a T" as an excuse to behave in very odd and even abusive ways.
 

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A or the key seems to be about knowing when the point of diminishing returns has been reached when it comes to being true to oneself and growing towards more awareness, and towards balance, wholesomeness and maturity is what it seems to be about.

Of what else that needs to be factored in is:
  • the environment, the social norms and culture,
  • the total intelligence level of the person
  • and their behavioral variations as defined, whichever they might be i.e. whether limited or extend by, by their functional development and strengths

and all of these seen through the lens of the transition and the effects of the transition of the person in terms of growth and development over time.

I say this because it seems more and more to be the case than not, that the gain or loss seems individual to us whereas it affects us collectively and so the gain or loss is for everyone regardless of when it becomes clear to whom and to what degree.
A nice example is what Confucius had stated before any of the reformers of the world did, and ironically it has not been a cultural or societal value or even a true beacon that was upheld and definitely not in its true sense almost anywhere or ever, which pithily stated was that status in any form should be based wholly upon merit.
 
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T

ThatGirl

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Everyone thinks MBTI is a personality test, rather than a window to their mentality.

That's why you see people "acting" like Fs or Ts, and becoming either catrooned images of the types, or using the descriptions to justify overt behavior.

I think the whole functions thing can't really be gauge in how someone acts. It is pretty easy to recognize a T if you step back and look at the result of their actions. Ts, to me, are the easiest to follow when assessing where they were going with a specific action and result.

I personally, come off as every type in the book. I consider myself to be fairly open.

People I consider to be the epitome of T or NT would be CeeCee, Haight, Highlander, Provoker, there are others but I can't name them off the bat. The reason for this is because they aren't so much overpowering with personality and you can trace the T pretty easily.

Anyway, that's my theory.
 

Such Irony

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Something that I have noticed on this forum is that some Ts are much more open/warm/trusting than others, some more social, etc and often this is explained away by extraversion or saying they are more balanced on T/F or were socialized to be emotional because of being female...

I like to think I'm one of the 'nicer' Ts. :D
I do think I come across as more open/warm/trusting than the average T. I have become more balanced on the T/F dimension as I've gotten older and have more access to being able to use Fe constructively. I'm also one of those rare T's who is an agreeable type on the Big Five. That could explain some of it too.
 

Thalassa

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Everyone thinks MBTI is a personality test, rather than a window to their mentality.

That's why you see people "acting" like Fs or Ts, and becoming either catrooned images of the types, or using the descriptions to justify overt behavior.

I think the whole functions thing can't really be gauge in how someone acts. It is pretty easy to recognize a T if you step back and look at the result of their actions. Ts, to me, are the easiest to follow when assessing where they were going with a specific action and result.

I personally, come off as every type in the book. I consider myself to be fairly open.

People I consider to be the epitome of T or NT would be CeeCee, Haight, Highlander, Provoker, there are others but I can't name them off the bat. The reason for this is because they aren't so much overpowering with personality and you can trace the T pretty easily.

Anyway, that's my theory.

I actually don't consider Provoker to be the epitome of NT. I think he's one of the ones with issues other than simply being a rational. His behavior on the forum and in vent was manipulative, cruel, and possibly even socially retarded.

Haight, Highlander, CeeCee ....yes. Just rational. I don't want to name any more names though, other than responding to what you said, lest I create drama and we don't want that.
 

Thalassa

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I like to think I'm one of the 'nicer' Ts. :D
I do think I come across as more open/warm/trusting than the average T. I have become more balanced on the T/F dimension as I've gotten older and have more access to being able to use Fe constructively. I'm also one of those rare T's who is an agreeable type on the Big Five. That could explain some of it too.



You are one of the nicer Ts. :hug:
 
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