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  1. #91
    Senior Member Keps Mnemnosyne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    So what methods are efficient in lessening reaction? (on general population.)
    There are many methods, although it is case specific and unfortunately most studies have focused on phobias. Desensitization in general works by showing that a person's reaction is out of proportion to the stimulus. You seem? to want to correct people on what you deem melodramatic, I would suggest to ignore it, unless necessary for your own well-being not to. Some people have such strong reactions because it gives them some reward often attention; trying to correct their over-reaction rewards their behavior. As a reminder, since I would feel negligent not to say it again; it is a case by case basis, and double-check that the reaction is not warranted for the stimulus, a difficult task in the firsthand.
    Tact is "useful"...? In what way?
    Tact, when used correctly, attempts to get one's message across to others in an efficient manner. Do not be mistake efficient for heartless or trite remarks. It can take time to refine the message, but once sprung an effective message can at least distill the idea for others to see even if not agreed with. It often involves showing respect and recognition that the other person has some rationale (even if poorly reasoned by your own thoughts) for doing or believing something. Odd you ask this question as you have attempted tact within this very thread. Of course tact is it's own downfall when a person places more importance on it than on the message or when used for manipulation. Nor is tact the panacea for all conditions; like a bomb with a few seconds left, some situations don't have the time for defusing.

    I have experience vengeance, mainly in the internet. It's not really as painful as being kicked in the balls.
    This view which pain is more significant is subjective and dependent on the person and their experiences. Until that person has experienced the multitude of forms of pain and somehow remains sane can that particular person say accurately which pain is worse. Comparing between the kick in the balls versus being called stupid, I agree, I would prefer being called stupid. If I had to relive my life experiences of mental pain versus my physical pain, however, I would choose my physical pain.

    I still think most, if not all, have their "lines" extremely disproportional by virtue of care. Eat Luxury cuisine for yourself and then give a nickel to malnourished dying kid. How much "care" is invested in that scenario as oppose to telling someone to "go away'"?
    Unfortunately, I do agree with you partially about this. Dealing with a problem just enough so it's not major enough to disrupt their world or self view.


    Despite what you or others may say of yourself, I have yet to see you as either asshole or troll, you may have a veneer of condescension, but nothing bearing of ill will yet.

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    I think a lot of trolls deserve the justice of a black eye.
    I have to disagree. What happens when they escape 'justice' again or even worse when they rise to positions of power? The cycle restarts or spirals farther out of control. I think "assholes" need to learn of themselves and everyone else as human beings. Of course, I'm probably spouting crazy NF shit that can be ignored.
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  2. #92
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    People I've encountered IRL are similarly mean and judgmental, but the online environment has less consequences for behaviors because the person can always leave and pick up on another site. Those aspects of bullying based on cowardice are nicely fed by anonymity. Fewer consequences requires less courage to act.

    I find many people with feelings of fear and dismissal in the world. IRL they don't say anything, but feel misunderstood, or judged, or cornered, or like everyone is stronger. MBTI is a tool to identify why you are special and why life is difficult for you. You choose a type (more effective if it is one of the rarer types) to identify a sense of personal uniqueness and then you dismiss the other types as the cause of the problems in your life. It provides a theoretical framework to justify the way life has left you feeling. I think it helps people to regain a sense of personal power. The problem is that it provides an opportunity to treat other people the way you see yourself as being treated. I think in most cases those with the superiority complexes actually feel the opposite, or else they are used to other people acting superior to them. They are trying to balance their "personal equations" so to speak. People tell you a lot in general terms about their own lives by how they treat people. They had to learn that behavior some place, whether as victim or copying those with power in a given social system. That approach distorts the system. The system is also way too general for most of the conclusions it is bent towards.

    I can feel a degree of sympathy for the process I've described above and can appreciate that sometimes it can seem like the only option. I can also see good and bad in internalizing some of the MBTI identities. Internalizing an identity of logic and objectivity (also Ayn Rand fans do it) has the benefit of the person striving towards those goals, but it also has the set back of making it more difficult to admit personal irrationalities. This is the same as the person who internalizes being empathetic for whom the price is too high to admit when they are blind to another person and so quickly take to projecting or dismissing. I don't know. I suppose on a personal note I can find the system demoralizing and try to deliberately view it from a distance so that it isn't used as an excuse or a source of judgment, or a way to internalize negativity which is directed constantly at most every type.

    The degree of judgementalism online might surpass what I've seen IRL and I've been in little country churches that thought singing slightly jazzy Christian songs was as "bad as having sex in the backseat of a car", or "was the devil's music", and would walk out in droves. I've known judgementalism taken to irrational extremes, but my jaw has still dropped on occasion online, but not as much this site. I gave up on the sites that take it to its fullest extreme. The resulting incoherency of thought leaves my mind spinning.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
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  3. #93
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I talk to people all day long.... lots and lots of random people... on top of that I have a rather large extended family. Despite all of these interactions though, I have NEVER run across as many people who are as contrary, disagreeable and likely to pass judgement on others for really dumb reasons as I manage to on this forum
    Weird. I found the opposite.

    I guess it depends on what sort of people you have to deal with IRL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmalade.Sunrise
    When many people feel there are no real consequences for bad behavior, they'll act however they please.
    Basically, that.

    So at that point, you learn who has an ingrained sense of respect for other people regardless of the circumstances vs those who only behave decently when they are afraid of reprisal.

    You also have to remember that people on an online forum -- despite the constructed sense of community -- aren't building a life together, aren't often intimately involved, have no reason to need to consider every reverberation set into motion by their actions. And if this place fails for them or they get booted, they've got lots of other options. That, plus the distance between oneself and one's actions/words and their impact on others, can lead to a lot of speaking freely and saying things people might not say IRL, when they have to actually look in the eyes of the person they're talking to.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  4. #94
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    no, I am always an asshole
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  5. #95
    Senior Member Chaotic Harmony's Avatar
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    I don't see near as many trolls here.... Then again... I've been on many gaming forums... Those places are just full of trolls. And I swear it's encouraged there...

    I'm really not that different in RL than I am on a forum... I've tried to be a troll before, and I just don't have it in me. I have no skills in being mean.

  6. #96
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Anonymity lets our hidden selves come out and play. I use the Internet for this; to try interacting in ways I don't irl. On that level I'm the same as the Internet Asshole, except I'm not dumping shit all over people.

    As far as assholes are concerned, some of my better friends are assholes, just as much, or more so than your standard internet type. And as I think about it, I'd probably be more offended reading what they would say on a forum compared to in person. The context of the asshole is completely different in a forum. There's a very important dimension of relationship that doesn't exist here.

    I'm fine with internet assholes as long they're not trolls, don't necessarily like 'em, though.

  7. #97
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keps Mnemnosyne View Post
    There are many methods, although it is case specific and unfortunately most studies have focused on phobias. Desensitization in general works by showing that a person's reaction is out of proportion to the stimulus. You seem? to want to correct people on what you deem melodramatic, I would suggest to ignore it, unless necessary for your own well-being not to. Some people have such strong reactions because it gives them some reward often attention; trying to correct their over-reaction rewards their behavior. As a reminder, since I would feel negligent not to say it again; it is a case by case basis, and double-check that the reaction is not warranted for the stimulus, a difficult task in the firsthand.
    Why case specific?

    Tact, when used correctly, attempts to get one's message across to others in an efficient manner. Do not be mistake efficient for heartless or trite remarks. It can take time to refine the message, but once sprung an effective message can at least distill the idea for others to see even if not agreed with. It often involves showing respect and recognition that the other person has some rationale (even if poorly reasoned by your own thoughts) for doing or believing something. Odd you ask this question as you have attempted tact within this very thread. Of course tact is it's own downfall when a person places more importance on it than on the message or when used for manipulation. Nor is tact the panacea for all conditions; like a bomb with a few seconds left, some situations don't have the time for defusing.
    Does tact induce sensitization?

    This view which pain is more significant is subjective and dependent on the person and their experiences. Until that person has experienced the multitude of forms of pain and somehow remains sane can that particular person say accurately which pain is worse. Comparing between the kick in the balls versus being called stupid, I agree, I would prefer being called stupid.
    Pain can be quantified via collective opinion. In general, Internet vengeance(if anonymous) is inferior to RL vengeance.

    If I had to relive my life experiences of mental pain versus my physical pain, however, I would choose my physical pain.
    why?

    Despite what you or others may say of yourself, I have yet to see you as either asshole or troll, you may have a veneer of condescension, but nothing bearing of ill will yet.
    Your right. I'm actually a very nice person.

    Of course, I'm probably spouting crazy NF shit that can be ignored.
    It's great that you realize this.

    Why should having a similarity with another person automatically mean cooperating with that person?

  8. #98
    Lungs & Lips Locked Unkindloving's Avatar
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    Anonymity just allows opinion and insecurity run rampant. I wouldn't say it's because people are better in real life or don't have such thoughts, but it's just a better medium for people to express those thoughts and feelings. You could also chalk it up to people feeling too secure in who they are- or too insecure about who they might be.

    Typology, while it can be a positive tool, is also used as the scapegoat for other issues.
    I can honestly say I've given a lot of people shit (playfully most of the time) about their types, but can also honestly say that it stems from the sore spots of bad experiences with people of those types. It's not meant as all-inclusive badgering, but it becomes a test of the individual in relation to me.. a fairly accurate test for the things I look for in people. Either way, it basically alludes to a very different issue of mine with people and self.
    I personally don't care about anonymity. I am much of the same in social conduct, be it positive or negative, throughout all aspects of life.
    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    no, I am always an asshole
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  9. #99
    Senior Member Keps Mnemnosyne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Why case specific?
    Because we are individuals. In social psychology, psychologists study how the situation affects the individual and their responses. Having said that no studies show a reaction to a situation that is one hundred percent universal to all individuals. Individual personalities and past experiences do affect the situation.

    Does tact induce sensitization?
    Ideally no, realistically, on occasion. To induce sensitization there has to be pain or anxiety of pain. Mistakes do happen, what one thought was a good response may be in the end be a poor choice of words. However, trying to be careful and occasionally failing is better than being careless and failing most of the time.

    Pain can be quantified via collective opinion. In general, Internet vengeance(if anonymous) is inferior to RL vengeance.
    So collective opinion is considered to be an accurate basis of measurement? I thought that was Ad populum fallacy. I do understand your point. If the behavior is truly anonymous, then why can it affect people? Some people fear anonymous disapproval more than other forms. More likely, the situation surrounding that person is not healthy, e.g., a person suffering already from taunts and beatings at school creating low self-esteem may be easily crushed by what others would think of as mere shallow expressions of anonymous hate.

    why?
    My summation of experiences of mental pain have been more painful than my experiences of physical pain, although the two are interwoven.

    Why should having a similarity with another person automatically mean cooperating with that person?
    I did not mean to imply cooperation, simply respect. There is a large difference from disagreeing with others viewpoints and finding out someone's wife died, then 'poking fun' of that situation. This needless pain serves no practical purpose. Even if one gets joy out of the situation it starts to desensitize oneself to the plight of others including those who one knows offline.
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  10. #100
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    To be honest, this forum seems really peaceful when compared to most others I partecipate. Anyway, yes, I personally have run into quite disagreeable people in real life, however tone of voice is a component of communication which is lost through the internet medium, so anything disagreeable is likely perceived as colder than how it would in real life.
    Yeah. There was a film forum I used to participate in which is off the scale in bitchiness. I would post something and then live in fear that I was about to be hung, drawn and quartered.

    I got tired of the tension and gave up. My nerves couldn't hack it any more.
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    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

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