• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Would You Drink The Kool-Aid?

E

Epiphany

Guest
I love how this kid was laughing at the cult in the beginning and still eventually succumbed to the pressure to conform.

Scare Tactics: Follow the Leader

http://stagevu.com/video/iiaulwezgrdz


kool1.jpg




The Asch Conformity Experiment

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRh5qy09nNw"]Asch Experiment[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgDx5g9ql1g"]Asch Conformity[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYIh4MkcfJA"]Asch Conformity[/YOUTUBE]
 

LunarMoon

New member
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
309
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
3
Doubtful. I actually enjoy making people challenge their ideas for its own sake.
 

Amethyst

¡MI TORTA!
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
2,191
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
No. I already hate conformity as it is, as well as those who try too hard not to conform, so they conform to their group of non-conformists.
 

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,569
I'm notoriously resistant to this kind of thing.

Although once in my life so far I've experienced something akin to a boss "gaslighting" me and pressurising me into just crashing and burning, they knew what they where doing and it was premeditated and I'm sure they believed the very best way of working with staff, the way they probably felt it was the best way of working with the public before they where promoted to management. It reinforced my venom for management per se. So manipulation and pressure are real.

I think the greatest literary insight into this was from George Orwell, 1984 is one of the most honest no BS books about the individual confronting authoritarianism, you will eventually break, everyone breaks, you will acknowledge that two plus two equals five with the right context or circumstances.

However the joke is ultimately on Big Brother and this something that most managers, authorities or overlords dont really appreciate, the sort of society which is littered with broken individuals and can only generate broken individuals will be a broken down one, in 1984 the hallmarks are a complete abscence of quality control among produce or decency between family members.

A lot of managers are content with that, they'll consider the bending of others to their will to be an achievement and a show of managerial competence, that's God damned piss poor practice but its also reflected in a lot of popular culture, philosophy, social theory and psychology and has been since the consolidation of modern capitalist economies.

It gave me a lot of cause for reflection, given that I'm serious about legitimate and illegit authorities or the exercise of authority and have thought a lot about it, its one of the pivot points of my considerations of reform, revolution, social change and what's desirable politically and socially.
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
6,704
MBTI Type
ENFJ
What if you're really terrible at visual-spatial tests?

(the correct line is 2)

Everyone else: One, definitely.

You: Can't you morons see, it's obviously 3!
 

Chaotic Harmony

New member
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Messages
1,436
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sx
No, I hate Kool-Aid. I don't care what you say or offer me, I will never drink Kool-Aid.
 

Aquarelle

Starcrossed Seafarer
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
3,144
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
I hate Kool-Aid too. Never even liked it when I was a kid. And yes, I mean that both metaphorically and literally. :D
 

MacGuffin

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
10,710
MBTI Type
xkcd
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Oh yeah, I would never do that just like everyone above, it's always some other person that would do that! Remember, all the French served in the Resistance.

sheeple.png
 

gromit

likes this
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
6,508
I like to think I wouldn't, but there's a good chance I would... :(
 

Oaky

Travelling mind
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
6,180
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
This would exist everywhere. Even on the forums. It's interesting to see it in motion when you know someone believes in something though says otherwise or avoids opening their mouth to say anything at all. Ride the wave even though you are really standing against it and if you're not strong enough you'll become part of it. And your beliefs change.
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
They should try this by testing different MBTI types. You'd probably get some interesting deviations.
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
6,704
MBTI Type
ENFJ
I'm confused, though. Is the person just pressured into answering differently, or is there a change in their actual perception?

Because I've seen this work, especially with colors. Let's take a cartoon character's shirt. On a certain picture, it might be debatably navy or black. I might decide it's navy. If enough other people tell me that, "oh, the shirt's supposed to be black," then soon the shirt will appear black to me, any "navy" coloring will be dismissed as lighting.

Then again, colors are much more subjective than things like length.
 

MacGuffin

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
10,710
MBTI Type
xkcd
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'm confused, though. Is the person just pressured into answering differently, or is there a change in their actual perception?

Because I've seen this work, especially with colors. Let's take a cartoon character's shirt. On a certain picture, it might be debatably navy or black. I might decide it's navy. If enough other people tell me that, "oh, the shirt's supposed to be black," then soon the shirt will appear black to me, any "navy" coloring will be dismissed as lighting.

Then again, colors are much more subjective than things like length.
THEREARE4LIGHTS.jpg





...I don't know how many people will get it.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
The statement that "the individual may go along even if they don't agree" is where I am uncertain for my own reactions. My inner thinking is more resistant to the group than my external tendency to "go along". I usually use the "going along with the group" aspect to buy time to continue to analyze things internally. It avoids creating any sort of outside disturbance that could distract my thinking.

In watching the experiment, I am conscious of times I have done the very thing. I was recently in a meeting where I disagreed with a lot of what was being said, but protested only about as much as the first guy insisting it was "line 2". I know I'm doing it, so the conformity is not entirely internalized, but it frustrates me and I wish I had quicker responses and the ability to operate internally and externally at the same time.
 

Chaotic Harmony

New member
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Messages
1,436
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sx
I'm confused, though. Is the person just pressured into answering differently, or is there a change in their actual perception?

Because I've seen this work, especially with colors. Let's take a cartoon character's shirt. On a certain picture, it might be debatably navy or black. I might decide it's navy. If enough other people tell me that, "oh, the shirt's supposed to be black," then soon the shirt will appear black to me, any "navy" coloring will be dismissed as lighting.

Then again, colors are much more subjective than things like length.

It's not necessarily pressured by anyone to answer differently than what they believe... It's a test of how many people would actually go against what the groups answer is.... If I'm not mistaken, the example of this experiment that I watched had six people, the first five people all answered completely and obviously wrong, just to see how the sixth person would respond. Whether or not they would say what was obvious or whether they would cave and follow the crowd.
 
E

Epiphany

Guest
I definitely wouldn't drink the Kool-Aid like the kid in the first video did, even if I watched my best friend do it, especially after the first guy apparently began writhing in pain. How stupid can you be?

I would hope that I wouldn't question my own judgement to the point of conformity if I were the subject in Asch's experiment. Nobody truly knows how they would respond unless they're in that situation. I tend to value my own opinions more than others' anyway; afterall, they're my viewpoints. I try not to devalue other people's perspectives, but unless they can convince me that I'm wrong, I'll probably stick to my own.

Since it was a social experiment, I wonder if anyone's response was influenced by the people they were with. For example, would somebody be more/less inclined to conform if they were sexually attracted to someone else in the group. Or if they were arrogant and felt like they were better than the others for one reason or another, would they be more likely to voice their disagreement? Or if they felt intimidated by one or more of the subjects, would they be less willing to oppose the group?
 
Top