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  1. #51
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Best thread in a week. I've got the con man attribute of 2 (seeking a job, hey? ), contentment of 4, openness of 5 and adventureousness of 6, to say a few. More of a mixed bag between 4-6, mostly identifying with 4.

    As for this ENTP's perspective, the 5 was inspiring, as well as 6. They actually works as some kind of a goal for me. I think I've been overly content and comfortable with what I've had.

    Still, the chart is biased against contemplatative types, as it doesn't seem to portray analytical abilities, objectivity, sense of realism and abilities deduction in any positive light. Or then, you could say the opposite: tho these traits may make a person to argue (level 2), but they also strongly contribute to their Big Picture Skills (level 6).

  2. #52
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    im about a 1... this system is so unfair, why should i get a lower number than everyone else? i want a higher number... i DESERVE a higher number, give it to me.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    im about a 1... this system is so unfair, why should i get a lower number than everyone else? i want a higher number... i DESERVE a higher number, give it to me.
    No. Raise levels by yourself, dude.
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    +++ PRAISE CHRIST +++ - don't be afraid : seek and defend the Truth with boldness.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc View Post
    Never think "I can't (put something here) because I'm (put something here)".
    "I can't (think negatively) because I'm (emotionally mature)".

    This is illustative of the counter-point we are making: There a great many merits for thinking negatively, and knowing one's own limits is a sign of maturity as well.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    "I can't (think negatively) because I'm (emotionally mature)".

    This is illustative of the counter-point we are making: There a great many merits for thinking negatively, and knowing one's own limits is a sign of maturity as well.
    Negative thinking may be healthy. Positive thinking is good, but when excessive, it's either legalistic or superficially positive (i.e. hiding major drawbacks).

    Negative thinking is not necessarily self-pitying or such, and may be like focusing on problems and drawbacks to compensate or solve them.

    For example, go here : Online Dating Service - Singles, Personals and Relationships, Match.com

    "Make love happen" : really ? if you think so, you're just a naïve loser, or you may be a total dumb retard

    "We guarantee you'll find someone within 6 months or we'll give you 6 months free." : but if it doesn't work within 6 months, would it necessarily work within 12 ?

    But another "harder" example : easyAdJob.com - Make Money From Home!

    Well I don't think explainations are any useful here.
    ENTJ - LII - Intimate Five

    +++ PRAISE CHRIST +++ - don't be afraid : seek and defend the Truth with boldness.

  6. #56
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    I never go by what I say of myself with these things because obviously, I'm biased. I always ask other people who know me well, selecting the ones who I know will be frank and honest rather than flattering.

    My people here are saying that on average I'm level 5, I sometimes go down to level 4 (and have been there recently), but I also flirt with level 6 on a regular basis.

    I'd add to that, that up to the age of about 25 I was probably mostly in level 3, with brief excursions into 4 but never as low as 2.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  7. #57
    Resident Snot-Nose GZA's Avatar
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    I suppose I'm probably a four... but Substitute's points are very good, its hard to measure yourself.

  8. #58

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    As with a lot of these things. People are a lot more complex.

    Even Morler's own theory says that 2's often try to act like 5's and 6's as defense. If the act is good enough, who's to say that those perceived as 5 or 6 are not actually 2's with good rationalization and/or self-rationalization skills?

    It mixes-up/equates several things together that ought not be.

    Would you actually equate positive impact with organizational contribution?

    What if you worked for Enron, World Com, the Mob, or some terrorist organization?

    Would you actually equate leadership with level of happiness?

    Most famously, Lincoln struggled with depression. But, potentially many other U.S. presidents did as well.

    Emotional maturity, productivity, leadership, and positive affectivity are different things. There may be correlations, but proscribing how to develop emotional maturity based on a theory that puts them together on the same ladder is preposterous.

    Even if we were to grant that Morler did his studies to the best scientific standards. This use of this ladder as a guide for personal development is the logical fallacy of accident at its most harmful.

    Let's place a few famous people on these levels to see if it is even worth considering for a particular person.


    Lincoln
    Gandhi
    Einstein
    Wittgenstein

    If you were aiming to be a more emotionally mature version of yourself, would following Morler's hierarchy hurt you or help you?

    Be honest.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  9. #59
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Well, as said, it was personally inspiring to me, and I would see no harm in being a 6, except that it seems a bit exhausting.

    Morler's site focuses on leadership; perhaps that's what has influenced the selection of traits on this hierarchy. I'd agree that the level 6 would be great leader traits for most leaders, tho I'd bet my left arm that other types of leaders are needed, too.

    I can't but to remember some descriptions on traits like FFM openness; great for scientist, bad for police officer. (that's what they say.)

    Eysenck psychoticism; bad for an accountant, good for a song writer.

    etc, etc. So no, this hierarchy isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread.

  10. #60
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urchin View Post
    Real people don't range from "content" to "joyous." This does not make them immature. It's a matter of how one deals with things.
    Not to argue in favor of the above outlined system, but isn't a way of dealing with things that makes a person range from content to joyous generally better than a way of dealing with things that makes a person go from average to bad mood?

    Btw most "leaders" I have known were level 2
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

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