User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 66

  1. #21
    mrs disregard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    7,855

    Default

    Ah! Then I agree with Morler. Good thread.

  2. #22
    It's always something... PuddleRiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    5w6
    Posts
    2,924

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LucrativeSid View Post
    I think I seem like a six on a great day, a five on an average day, and a four on a bad day.
    Pretty much the same here except I'm probably a five with four being my bad day. Some of the things with six I don't think I'd ever be. It'd have to be a pretty great day.
    "In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay one invincible summer."
    ~~~~
    A Christian's life may be the only Bible some people ever read.
    ~~~~
    "The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them" Maya Angelou.
    ~~~~
    I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ" Gandhi
    ~~~~

  3. #23
    Senior Member Dansker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    341

    Default

    Interesting.

    I'd say I'm a 5 with glimpses of 6 every now and then across some of the characteristics that are measured.

  4. #24
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    5,351

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I'm not really convinced by some of these traits. They seem designed to cater towards particular sorts of people (especially the ones who actively like to direct others), and put other types lower on the ladder.

    I don't think the "actualized person" will always be the outgoing leader type. People can lead in quiet ways, without directing the activities of others.

    Dana's list seems a little more open than the other link I looked at.
    I agree with Jennifer.

    The level 6 descriptor sounds like an ENTP. I will never fully act like an ENTP in a million years. Does that mean that I am not emotionally mature? I don't think it's fair to say so.

    I can say that I have been at all the Levels described in Dana's post, and thankfully I am at Level 5 now.

  5. #25
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I agree with Jennifer.

    The level 6 descriptor sounds like an ENTP. I will never fully act like an ENTP in a million years. Does that mean that I am not emotionally mature? I don't think it's fair to say so.

    I can say that I have been at all the Levels described in Dana's post, and thankfully I am at Level 5 now.
    Maybe Morler was influenced by his own type, but he says that his descriptions of levels are relevant for all types.
    ENTJ - LII - Intimate Five

    +++ PRAISE CHRIST +++ - don't be afraid : seek and defend the Truth with boldness.

  6. #26
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    5,351

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc View Post
    Maybe Morler was influenced by his own type, but he says that his descriptions of levels are relevant for all types.
    I understand, but I disagree with him. ESTJs also make great leaders, but they would be hard-pressed to fit into the Level 6 description, unless they were older and had developed better use of their non-dominant functions.

    I agree that there are different levels of maturity, but I don't believe that he has defined them well.

    What I'm trying to say is that I think there might be emotionally immature ENTPs who might naturally make it up high on the list simply because their temperament leans that way.

  7. #27

    Default

    I was trying to find out who Edward Morler is and what methods he used to come to the conclusions he did.

    But I only found reams of pointers to his consulting for business.

    The fact is that there are many lists like this (My own corporation has a list like this and its is different in many ways). This has to be one of the least universal seeming ones of the lists I've seen.

    Just because you put certain things on a "ladder" with mainly good things at the top an bad things at the bottom, doesn't mean that these levels correspond to anything.

    It seems to not only be somewhat type biased, but also very biased towards certain philosophies and seems most geared towards being "bought" by a modern Western corporation (and international organizations that want to be like a western corporation).

    Unfortunately, even though level 5-6 may be fairly universal, the "path" is very limiting in itself, and seems highly inaccurate, jmo.

    A technical or scientific organization, for instance would have different things not only in 5 and 6, but keeps things like "debate" near the top, not the middle.

    This ladder seems especially geared towards sales and marketing (not surprising if that is their target customer).

    FWIW, I can see aspects of all levels in myself. I am "proactive" in some ways a victim in others, hostile in others, apahtetic in others, and even a leader in others.

    Definitely seems biased towards extroversion. You can claim neutrality, but I doubt the likes of Einstein or Darwin would be near the top of these lists.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  8. #28
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    A technical or scientific organization, for instance would have different things not only in 5 and 6, but keeps things like "debate" near the top, not the middle.

    This ladder seems especially geared towards sales and marketing (not surprising if that is their target customer).

    FWIW, I can see aspects of all levels in myself. I am "proactive" in some ways a victim in others, hostile in others, apahtetic in others, and even a leader in others.

    Definitely seems biased towards extroversion. You can claim neutrality, but I doubt the likes of Einstein or Darwin would be near the top of these lists.
    The E/I thing has nothing to do with the ability to lead, but rather with styles of leadership.

    You can see all levels in yourself, but you're not really a Victim or a Manipulator if your behaviour is not chronic.

    Customers don't like integrity-lacking behaviours. I think that Level-3-ers and under shouldn't have any contact with customers. Don't you want others to respect you ?
    ENTJ - LII - Intimate Five

    +++ PRAISE CHRIST +++ - don't be afraid : seek and defend the Truth with boldness.

  9. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc View Post
    The E/I thing has nothing to do with the ability to lead, but rather with styles of leadership.
    But there is a definite tendency for I's to not want to have official leadership capacity. That is like having the spot-light turned on them. Frankly I don't want to be a "leader" officially speaking. I think that is perfectly OK. I personally think leaderless groups are better (peer-groups, collegial style, etc. ).

    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc View Post
    You can see all levels in yourself, but you're not really a Victim or a Manipulator if your behaviour is not chronic.
    I consider myself never a manipulator. But the victim feeling is chronic. But I generally speak out for those being hurt. So there is some level 1, some level 3, and some level 5/6 that are fairly chronic, if I am honest with myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc View Post
    Customers don't like integrity-lacking behaviours. I think that Level-3-ers and under shouldn't have any contact with customers. Don't you want others to respect you ?
    The word integrity itself is strongly culturally laden term. I frankly don't care about respect other than in practical terms (what opportunities it offords me). I frankly prefer to do what I believe is right whether or not it gains or loses respect for me. However, it is the practical concerns regarding respect that keep me from doing these things (sometimes).

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  10. #30
    mrs disregard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    7,855

    Default

    But machintruc said that leadership can be interpreted as leading oneself (assertiveness).

Similar Threads

  1. [NT] Embarrassed by Displays of Emotion?
    By Orangey in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 77
    Last Post: 11-18-2008, 02:17 PM
  2. Avatars As Communicators of Emotion
    By Usehername in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 07-20-2008, 12:58 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO