Is This Si?

[Thalassa]

Last night before I fell asleep I "walked" through my childhood home and remembered everything in sharp detail: the rocks on the front path and the ants that would crawl there in their hills, the feel of the rough front porch carpeting, the smell of the sap leaking from the log cabin, wooly worms in the yard, the pine trees that capped each end of our property, the bookcase - even some of the books inside, the pictures that hung on the hallway wall and in which order, the original refrigerator and the newer one we bought when I was about eight, how excited my best friend and I were about using the ice machine, the exact placement of the curtains and the plants and the knick knacks and the tables

...and the order, the blessed sense of order and permanance there, and a deep sadness of not only losing my childhood and the people therein (especially grandparents and great-grandmother who are now dead) but actully feeling mourning for the OBJECTS THEMSELVES. I actually miss objects from my childhood and the feeling of things staying stable, and orderly, and not changing.

I can remember these objects - foot stools and clothes hampers and vinyl flooring and my swing set...not just the stronger memories attached to them, and there's a feeling attached to all of this.

I frequently dream about this place when I'm actually sleeping and want to go "home" but this is while I was awake.

It reminds me of the time that I was depressed and living in my apartment in WV and so I organized the silverware drawer to look like my grandmother's.

 

[Thalassa]

Anybody?

 

[Thalassa]

Am I the only non-SJ on this forum who uses Si?

 

[Jaguar]

Every human being uses Si to some extent, unless they went through the windshield of their car and sustained brain damage. I am human, so yes, this non-SJ uses Si.

 

[Thalassa]

But is what I stated in the OP indicative of Si?

 

[INTP]

i think the details came from Si, but i dont think all memory is Si

 

[Eric B]

Remember, the functions are ultimately perspectives, so the answer to the question would be the context of how you were using "memory".

That sort of nostalgia does sound like tertiary or even [a developed] inferior Si.

According to Berens:

While they may not want to participate in traditions or other customary activities for the sameness of them, they often have a sense of nostalgia for how things were before, often with romantic notions. Similarly, they often desire some future life that is set, with conventional trappings, yet are drawn to novelty.

They can have a rich memory for detail—not noticing the details in the moment but being able to recall them later with specificity that surprises others. They enjoy sifting through and reliving various good memories. At the same time they will avoid situations that might spoil a good memory with a bad revisit of the experience because of the powerful influence bad memories seem to exert on them in the present. Their recollections can seem incredibly real and convincing, even when highly inaccurate or fanciful. They can become overly engaged in this process and get caught up in stockpiling goods and information so they are always prepared and avoid shortages. Similarly, they can over-prepare and get lost in the details. If they don't recognize the value of this process, then they will likely disavow careful data collection. Their inability to settle can become a plague to themselves and others.

Though the inferior is said to manifest like this in "midlife", and you haven't reached midlife yet, right? I know with me, things like this kicked off in teens, when the tertiary or "eternal child" complex is said to develop.
Still, it could be just be revisiting the old place that triggered it for you (I assume you were actually there, and not just "walking" in your imagination before sleeping. In either case, this sort of thing will likely increase as you get older).

 

[Jaguar]

Remember, the functions are ultimately perspectives,

The mental processes are not "perspectives," Eric. That's your own pet word.
Just because you think it's a good idea to rename the cat a "dog," doesn't make the cat a dog.

 

[Andy]

Last night before I fell asleep I "walked" through my childhood home and remembered everything in sharp detail: the rocks on the front path and the ants that would crawl there in their hills, the feel of the rough front porch carpeting, the smell of the sap leaking from the log cabin, wooly worms in the yard, the pine trees that capped each end of our property, the bookcase - even some of the books inside, the pictures that hung on the hallway wall and in which order, the original refrigerator and the newer one we bought when I was about eight, how excited my best friend and I were about using the ice machine, the exact placement of the curtains and the plants and the knick knacks and the tables

...and the order, the blessed sense of order and permanance there, and a deep sadness of not only losing my childhood and the people therein (especially grandparents and great-grandmother who are now dead) but actully feeling mourning for the OBJECTS THEMSELVES. I actually miss objects from my childhood and the feeling of things staying stable, and orderly, and not changing.

I can remember these objects - foot stools and clothes hampers and vinyl flooring and my swing set...not just the stronger memories attached to them, and there's a feeling attached to all of this.

I frequently dream about this place when I'm actually sleeping and want to go "home" but this is while I was awake.

It reminds me of the time that I was depressed and living in my apartment in WV and so I organized the silverware drawer to look like my grandmother's.

I'd say no.

Si is a function that often gets associated with memory, but I think that connection isn't a good or at least deep. Si has more to do with wanting to be certain of what you know. Si users like to have a sound base for making decisions, one made using information the person feels they can trust. Consequently, they will often run things through their heads to make sure they have everything straight, whether it is the days events or a shopping list. Is repetition can help bind things into the memory, but Si isn't memory itself.

This remembrance itself isn't product of the functions, though what you do with it might be. And what did you do with it? You brought it to use to be analysed, to disect it's impliacations. That might be fueled by Si, looking to comfirm your suspicions.

 

[Thalassa]

Ok, Andy, I was wondering because of the intensity of the detail and the object-orientation, not just because it was a memory, and Eric...this kind of thing has been going on for years, one of the reasons I questioned INFP over ENFP.

Thanks.

 

[Thalassa]

I'd say no.

Si is a function that often gets associated with memory, but I think that connection isn't a good or at least deep. Si has more to do with wanting to be certain of what you know. Si users like to have a sound base for making decisions, one made using information the person feels they can trust. Consequently, they will often run things through their heads to make sure they have everything straight, whether it is the days events or a shopping list. Is repetition can help bind things into the memory, but Si isn't memory itself.

This remembrance itself isn't product of the functions, though what you do with it might be. And what did you do with it? You brought it to use to be analysed, to disect it's impliacations. That might be fueled by Si, looking to comfirm your suspicions.

Ok I want to clarify here that I never thought I was an Si dom, that I figured this was either a tertiary or inferior manifestation of Si.

Discussions with a clear Si dom go thusly:

*I tell story I posted here*

"Sure I have strong memories, but that doesn't seem useful, so if that is Si, Si is useless"

Same Si dom reports telling favorite stories from own life experiences over and over again (reliving memories much in the same way I describe here), noticing small disturbances in detail from across the room, fixation with order or cleaniless to "maintain sanity," talks about rules and fair division of labor, preventative measures to maintain health, and has a surprisingly subtle critiquing system for aesthetic value.

Based on this and what I've observed from other Si doms or aux I would never think that I was manifesting Si dominance or auxillary in this manner. Just wanted to note that.

 

[Andy]

Ok, fair enough.

The point I was trying to make is that memories, like emotions, are not part of the functions. When you experience such a thing, the functions are much more about how you respond to them. That's a slight simplification, of course. A persons own needs and wants will effect the emotions they experience when confronted with something, but it is still important to draw a mental line between the two as otherwise it leads to thoughts like "Well that person thinks with their emotions, so they must be a feeler" and other confusions.

 

[Thalassa]

Ok, fair enough.

The point I was trying to make is that memories, like emotions, are not part of the functions. When you experience such a thing, the functions are much more about how you respond to them. That's a slight simplification, of course. A persons own needs and wants will effect the emotions they experience when confronted with something, but it is still important to draw a mental line between the two as otherwise it leads to thoughts like "Well that person thinks with their emotions, so they must be a feeler" and other confusions.

Are your childhood memories that detailed? Do you also experience a great deal of nostalgia?

I've been told this is a manifestation of Si, and it also contributes to why an SJ dominant society sentimentalizes the collective past experience through tradition.

 

[Thalassa]

Remember, the functions are ultimately perspectives, so the answer to the question would be the context of how you were using "memory".

That sort of nostalgia does sound like tertiary or even [a developed] inferior Si.

According to Berens:


Though the inferior is said to manifest like this in "midlife", and you haven't reached midlife yet, right? I know with me, things like this kicked off in teens, when the tertiary or "eternal child" complex is said to develop.
Still, it could be just be revisiting the old place that triggered it for you (I assume you were actually there, and not just "walking" in your imagination before sleeping. In either case, this sort of thing will likely increase as you get older).

And no, I was not actually there - I have visited that house once as recently as four years ago but new people own it and while I walked on the property I did not go inside.

I have not been inside of that house since I was about ten years old. This is purely from memory, and seems more like tertiary, doesn't it?

I relate to what you posted there about the inferior, though.

 

[Andy]

Are your childhood memories that detailed? Do you also experience a great deal of nostalgia?

I've been told this is a manifestation of Si, and it also contributes to why an SJ dominant society sentimentalizes the collective past experience through tradition.

I have a good memory, for the most part. I can remember being in playschool, looking down from the top of a slide at two boys fighting. I can remember standing with my mother, watching my brother go to school, wondering when it would be my turn and if I really wanted a turn. There are many such snapshots littered through my head, but they don't really mean much. Just random things that get stuck in my head. My mother will sometimes mention something else I did or said, and it draws a complete blank with me.

In one job I held, I had a reputation for being able to remember any sample that passed through my hands. That was something of an exageration, of course, but I often remember what a samplef rom last month was physically like just by looking at the name on a piece of paper after processing close to a thousand other samples inbetween. It was a useful skill, but, as has been said many times in the past, skills aren't functions.

 

[Eric B]

The mental processes are not "perspectives," Eric. That's your own pet word.
Just because you think it's a good idea to rename the cat a "dog," doesn't make the cat a dog.

It's actually Sim's term, and it made perfect sense.
Else, what do you say the "processes" are? Tools we "use"? Behaviors, or actions like "memory"? Then you have to explain how the action or tool of memory figures in non-SJ types.

 

[Aleksei]

Last night before I fell asleep I "walked" through my childhood home and remembered everything in sharp detail: the rocks on the front path and the ants that would crawl there in their hills, the feel of the rough front porch carpeting, the smell of the sap leaking from the log cabin, wooly worms in the yard, the pine trees that capped each end of our property, the bookcase - even some of the books inside, the pictures that hung on the hallway wall and in which order, the original refrigerator and the newer one we bought when I was about eight, how excited my best friend and I were about using the ice machine, the exact placement of the curtains and the plants and the knick knacks and the tables

...and the order, the blessed sense of order and permanance there, and a deep sadness of not only losing my childhood and the people therein (especially grandparents and great-grandmother who are now dead) but actully feeling mourning for the OBJECTS THEMSELVES. I actually miss objects from my childhood and the feeling of things staying stable, and orderly, and not changing.

I can remember these objects - foot stools and clothes hampers and vinyl flooring and my swing set...not just the stronger memories attached to them, and there's a feeling attached to all of this.

I frequently dream about this place when I'm actually sleeping and want to go "home" but this is while I was awake.

It reminds me of the time that I was depressed and living in my apartment in WV and so I organized the silverware drawer to look like my grandmother's.

This is Si + Fi, concretely.

 

[MonkeyGrass]

This is fascinating to me...I've wished to do the things you described, but can't ever quite access that kind of detailed memory. I'm a little envious.

 

[IZthe411]

I wouldn't call that Si exactly.


I agree with Aleksei (surprisingly).

 

[Jaguar]

Else, what do you say the "processes" are? Tools we "use"? Behaviors, or actions like "memory"? Then you have to explain how the action or tool of memory figures in non-SJ types.

Linda V. Berens is fine by me. Here is hers:

Processes are the activities the system engages in as it functions in day-to-day life and as it grows, adapts, and changes. They are best described using verbs that indicate actions. Processes are dynamic and changing. We can't examine processes directly. To understand them we must look at the behaviors to see evidence of the processes. When trying to describe a process we have to take into account movement over time. Processes are moment-to-moment and repeat in different sequences.

No single process operates in isolation.

Dynamics of personality type: understanding and applying Jung's cognitive processes.
http://books.google.com/books?id=ca...&resnum=1&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

There is a big difference between lying in bed thinking about childhood and someone who naturally operates with a preference for Si, which means we need to have the important Si word involved: COMPARISON. It's the process of constantly taking in information and COMPARING it to what is ALREADY KNOWN. What is already known is what is in the person's subjective mental rolodex. The past is being COMPARED to the present.

There's a difference between someone whose thinking operates with a preference for Si, and a comment such as, " I was thinking about childhood last night . . . "