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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yes, as we fall asleep or come awake, we pass through the hypnogogic state or the hypnogogic trance.

    The hypnogogic trance is one trance of many.

    A trance is characterised by the turning off of some cognitive faculties and the turning on of some creative faculties.

    The type of trance is determined by which cognitive faculties we turn off of which creative faculties we turn on.

    We can learn which type trance to enter and leave, but it takes practice.

    I leant how to safely enter a leave a particular trance by attending a class by a Sports' Psychologist.

    The purpose of the trance we were taught was to increase our athletic performance, and various trances can be designed for various purposes.

    At the moment I am no longer interested in increasing my athletic performance, rather I am interested in turning off some of my cognitive faculties in order to think in images. In other words, I am interested in imagistic poetry.

    When some don't like what I say, or are disturbed by what I say, I am regularly accused of being on pot. But I don't take pot or any other mind altering drugs. I simply enter an imagistic trance.

    Of course in my narcissistic way I hope to elicit replies in kind. In other words I hope to receive replies couched in images. But of course I tend to get replies in cognitive logic and cognitive analysis and cognitive evaluation.

    And alas for my poor ego, the evaluations tend to be negative and shade into personal attacks.

    This is natural as we all fear the unknown and for most of us trance is unknown territory.

    Sometimes when I am out in the Bush I will start to fall into an involuntary trance and the first thing I feel is fear. This is natural for as I fall into an involuntary trance, my cognitive faculties start to fall asleep. And as some of my cognitive faculties start to disappear, I am more vulnerable. But as I fall through this rather sharp moment of fear, I leave the fear behind and the beauty of the Bush rushes in upon me.

    In particular the cognitive faculty of knowing what is coming next disappears, and everything comes as a surprise. And the surprise is one moment of beauty after another.

    If I try to stay in one moment of beauty without surrendering to the next, the beauty trance tends to disappear and I am left somewhat wistful trying to remember the beauty in the same way we try to remember a dream.

    This is beautifully expressed by Kenneth Grahame in, "The Piper at the Gates of Dawn", which you can read by clicking on - http://www.online-literature.com/grahame/windwillows/7/

    And note that each of us hears the Piper at dawn and dusk as we wake or fall asleep and pass through the hypnogogic trance.

    We are piped awake and we are piped asleep and all we can remember is the wind in the willows.
    I love it when you talk about the Wind in the Willows, Victor.

  2. #22
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    Danger and Discovery

    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    Do you not feel comfortable sharing? You feel more comfortable criticizing?!

    Criticizing instead of sharing makes you superior in some way?

    Do you feel alienated, different? Living in a world of mindless people? Seeking proof constantly that people are actually mindless? Seeking proof for a long time now?

    Do you actually connect with other people?
    You also write different compared to most people. And have an uncommon avatar. Do you listen music which most people do not listen? Do you dress in an uncommon way? Do you do most things in an uncommon way? Do you consider seeing things in an uncommon way? Seeing meaning where most people can't? Do you watch uncommon movies? Have uncommon hobies?

    Everything about you is different.
    But is it worth it sacrificing the connection, for being different?
    Do you associate commonness with stupidity?
    Sharing is comfortable and reassuring.

    And sharing is comfortable and reassuring because there is little risk.

    But every critique contains a risk.

    And with every risk, we walk the line. We may fall off or we may discover something valuable.

    Risk is also a test of moral courage and of character.

    And when we take a risk, we know we are alive.

    For instance, in the hypnogogic trance as we wake and fall asleep, we are vulnerable. And when we are vulnerable, we are taking a risk. However we can take an even bigger risk by extending this ur-trance into daily life and make surprising discoveries, all at the risk of being vulnerable.

    So perhaps it is a matter of taste. Do we long to be comfortable and reassured, or do we have a taste for danger and discovery?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    Do you not feel comfortable sharing? You feel more comfortable criticizing?
    This is an interesting question because I guess I take the answer for granted.

    For I know that science is not possible without critique. In fact science is a continual process of critique and testing. It never ends and results in discovery.

    On the other hand MBTI has never been subject to a random double blind test in seventy years. So we can say that MBTI has no scientific validity.

    In fact MBTI depends on self reporting and sharing.

    This is very seductive and meets our need to belong.

    On the other hand science is discovering what is reasonably true, whereas MBTI is about sharing and making connection.

    I think what annoys me is that MBTI puts on the mask of science in a similar way that the religion of Christian Science pretends to be a scientific.

    Perhaps another way of putting it is that MBTI builds social capital. And in a society based on predatory capitalism, social capital seems to be a necessary, moral corrective.

    However I live in a society based on prudent capitalism, as demonstrated in the last global economic meltdown, and so I have less need to build social capital as a moral corrective.

    And so being secure and safe in my own society, I am free to critique and discover what is reasonably true.

    This is obviously a surprise to those living in a predatory society, but I guess such surprises will become more common as we discover one another in the global village.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Stevo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    This is an interesting question because I guess I take the answer for granted.

    For I know that science is not possible without critique. In fact science is a continual process of critique and testing. It never ends and results in discovery.

    On the other hand MBTI has never been subject to a random double blind test in seventy years. So we can say that MBTI has no scientific validity.
    How did I know you were going to bring out your "double blind" canard.

  5. #25
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Now and then, when I am in the process of falling asleep, the last almost-waking thought I have is an image of a dress. It is always a different dress, on a mannequin or faceless model as in a fashion show. It is always a fancy or formal dress, and I see it instantly in complete detail. I don't know why these thoughts come to me. I'm not a designer or a model, nor interested in fashion in any way.

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