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  1. #11
    Senior Member Tabula's Avatar
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    Firstly, thank you all so much for responding. I really appreciate it. If the roles were reversed, I doubt I could’ve been so patient. It’s humbling and admirable.

    Addressing the issue of my intelligence or unintelligence—
    I assure you that I am not. I won’t get into every little reason for it, as I’ve already said way too much. In short--anyone can learn structure and delivery; I’m lacking where it matters—content (idea, originality, insight, complexity of thought etc.) Idea > Structure. All this proves is that I can make something stupid look better. That’s not a talent; it’s unnecessarily complicating to compensate for the fact that I’m not smart, and so, can’t understand or employ actual complexity. (as an example of what I stated before.) Admittedly, no, it wasn’t conscious, but it’s now easy to see how and why I picked up that habit, having found the right context to understand it in.

    I understand why fear and insecurity are seemingly the real problem, and this, only a specific manifestation. I’ve thought a lot about this and concluded that it’s not. The issue is exactly as I’ve stated. Insecurity is a byproduct, not the root problem. I will agree that it need be addressed before I can attempt to uproot the core problem, but that’s only because of the geography of the issue and sub-issues, not because its disproportionate influence is an indication that it’s necessarily the only or “true” problem. Insecurity is simply placed between it (the core issue) and me. To be secure in myself is absolutely integral to cultivating the ability to fully accept harsher truths about myself, and from there, to assimilate it into a broader self-understanding that’s then worked FROM in external interactions with the world. But this isn’t an end unto itself—it’s just a small step in the right direction. Me --> insecurity --> acceptance of mediocrity (and other things) -->living life functionally with and in spite of this understanding. I don’t want to delude myself any further. I want to learn how to more graciously accept truth whilst still maintaining functionality. Weed out my own biases, prejudices, etc. as it were. The lens and the subject shouldn’t (and don’t) matter; only the truth. And how am I ever going to be able to look at something objectively enough to see the truth, if I’m so deluded in my sense of self? You can’t see something for what it is if you’re looking at it through a warped lens, especially when you’re not even aware the lens is warped. To be able to do this, I have to first make amends with my ego, and ultimately, my deficiencies, before I can go on to live life honestly, and thus, attempt to see truth anywhere or really learn anything at all.

    Validation of what? I have more than enough validation for the fact that I am intellectually lacking. It isn’t really necessary to make anyone believe it (online or not) to be able to help with the actual issue, as anything can be substituted for “intelligence” depending on who is asking. We all have problems, yes. Mine, having to do with a lack of intelligence, is frustrating, because intelligence is seemingly necessary in order to successfully work through the problem at all! This is primarily the reason I’ve not sought professional help. In doing so, I’d implicitly be validating, or seeking validation, of this “problem” by having sought help with it at all. Given the status of it as a non-problem, it would only serve to hurt me in the long run. I need to stop doing that and learn how to do it myself if I’m ever going to be able to learn how to function despite my deficiencies. The world does not cater to Tabula. The world doesn’t give a shit about Tabula. Tabula is the only person who can make an ACTUAL change in Tabula’s life. As of right now, she's all talk and no action.

    I am the first of four children. I grew up in a cookie-cutter suburban environment complete with married parents, a minivan, white picket fence and a dog. I have absolutely nothing to complain about and don’t want even to entertain the thought that anyone but myself could be even partly to blame for my problems. This is ENTIRELY MY OWN DOING. No, they weren’t gifted, nor really successful (by their definition and mine.) Yes, they were supportive. Perhaps even too much if that’s possible. My mother thought I was practically a genius. My father, bless him, was my humbling voice of reason. If not for him, this would be 1000x worse than it is. I may never have figured out I’m not smart, and therefore, would never have been able to identify and fix the problem when it inevitably presented itself in some form. Loving? Ehm. I guess so. My mom is a manipulative emotional vampire (we’re now estranged) and my dad, though an ISTJ, much the more affectionate/affirming/loving. I grew up totally believing that I could do and be absolutely anything I wanted. Brain surgeon? Sure! Rocket scientist? No problem! Me? I wanted to cure fucking cancer, be a composer, novelist, philosopher, and on and on and on… and TOTALLY BELIEVED I COULD! No, this wasn’t cute kindergarten optimism. I carried this with me all the way to HIGH SCHOOL! That is, until I discovered that I can’t do absolutely everything. That actually, I can barely understand and perform simple arithmetic. That’s when I gave up. I’ve never really tried to do anything, so where the hell did I get off thinking I could BE anything?! I feel quite like a fraud in many ways. A deluded, whining, self-important fraud. I’ve never accomplished or done anything to indicate that I’m anything but mediocre, but still for whatever reason thought I could cure cancer. And now, in trying to figure out what exactly it is that I am indeed capable of, it seems that anything will pale in comparison to that prior “understanding.” Everything is going to feel like failure before even starting or trying. THAT is what I need to get rid of. That is what I meant in posting all of this. I know I’m not smart, I know that I can’t cure cancer…so why can’t I just accept it and live accordingly with my real ability? (re: recognition<-->demonstration disconnect I mentioned before.) My goal in life? To be of use. To do something useful. I’m no more important than the next person. My personal happiness shouldn’t be a consideration. I don’t even recognize happiness as a worthy life-goal for myself. It doesn’t make sense and smells like delusion again. I have to reconcile the fact that I’m not a genius and so won’t cure cancer etc. with the reality that I’m not capable of even understanding simple things. Happiness is and should be a temporary cyclical thing—not the ultimate state of being/living [to me.] If I’m content, where then would the motivation to do MORE come from, especially now with the knowledge that I’m below the level I want to be, and so it will be more difficult to do/understand simpler things? I don’t want contentedness. I don’t want to settle. I’ve already slept through most of my life; I’m done with comfort now.


    Eh, FWIW, I’m either 9w1 or 5w4. Probably the former, but I don’t know. It’s still hard to separate truth from desire right now. I will be looking into this more, as suggested, however.

    It’s obvious that I could go on whining indefinitely, but I will spare you all here at this time. Thank you again for listening to this drivel and humbly offering your own experiences and advice. I greatly appreciate it and will spend much more time thinking about your responses. Thank you.

  2. #12
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I think you've convinced me, Tab.

    I don't really want to engage someone in conversation who enjoys writing long pieces of articulate prose about themselves, while arguing that other's acceptance and acknowledgement of her/him is unwarranted and illegitimate and while putting down the very same prose s/he is spending so much time posting as "whining" and "drivel" among other things.

    I've had to deal with other people like this before, and I know it's rather pointless until you decide you're actually worth something... unless of course this sort of unhealthy dynamic is actually what you were after all along, and I don't want to play anymore.

    If you want to argue and present yourself as not worth anyone's time (which is kind of insulting to our own intelligence), then so be it.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #13
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Provocative.

    Tabula: You're not using "intelligence" in the practical sense of the word. The term itself has been broadened to encompass the rationale for any and all obstacles thus far insurmountable in your life. As the presentation of the obstacles becomes more and more difficult - such that you convince yourself you are unable to adequately finish the task - you appear to justify your failure as a consequence of limited mental faculty.

    This may or may not be the case. It's actually fairly irrelevant in the context of our discussion.

    Why do you wish to be intelligent? That is probably a better question.


    Your answer will provide what you believe you are missing in life.

    Pay attention to your thinking.

  4. #14
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    As has been mentioned about you (OP), you are unhealthily fixating on intelligence. What this does in effect is to make you an intelligence elitest. You imply, by your own self loathing, that intelligence and measuring yourself by it against other people is the sole value of human worth. I consider myself reasonably intelligent, but I know many irl who are smarter than me, and many many more online who are smarter than me. If you expand the competition to types of intelligence, then that guy down the street that can take apart and put an engine together by memory, but has a vocabulary of 5 words is more intelligent than me.

    I don't put those smarter than me up on a pedestal, and neither do I step on those who aren't. If you feel you have to judge yourself and others against a measure, there are better metrics than intelligence.

  5. #15
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    This thread frankly amused me. Multiple studies have shown that anyone with IQs 120 and up can conceivably do anything that they put their mind to; i.e. intelligence is not the determining factor in life success. Anything above 140 has a crippling effect on social skills and relatability; i.e. people are handicapped by their intelligence because it restricts the people whom they can relate to. Being a genius is not all that it's cut out to be, you seem to have an idealised picture of "intelligence solving every problem in the universe" when it's probable that it's created most of them, too.

    I'd say that you're using intelligence as an excuse for failure. As part of growing up (particularly in your teens and 20s) failure in at least one area of your life is inevitable. It's when you don't learn/move on and look for excuses/uncontrollables like "intelligence" for why your life didn't turn out the way that you thought it would, that you become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    I'm an intelligent failure in a large part of my life. It's obvious to me that the reasons why I am not living the life that I wish I was are:
    a) due to bad decision-making
    b) self-indulgent behavior and attitudes
    c) various other issues
    It makes a lot more sense to actively work on all of the above than whine about being limited by what I'm given.

  6. #16
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Tabula,
    You remind me of myself...
    I think you need to reframe things. Intelligence is not a static thing, nor is it of fundamental importance in life. People have done great things by concentating on other aspects of their being, like compassion. Does any really care what Gandhi's IQ was?
    My father was a brillliant man. graduated HS at 15, college at 19, got the highest score ever (at that time) on the math and science test at the SoCal chapter of Mensa...yet he was not able to translate his intellectual ability into being a good father. In that sphere, he was quite handicapped. His IQ didn't result in greater happiness for him or anyone he knew. Because of his childhood, he was an emotional cripple, and he crippled others, as usually happens...
    The reality is that you all you need to be is smart enough. Then the question is: what do you want to do? What do you desire for yourself?

  7. #17
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    Tabula,
    You remind me of myself...
    I think you need to reframe things. Intelligence is not a static thing, nor is it of fundamental importance in life. People have done great things by concentating on other aspects of their being, like compassion. Does any really care what Gandhi's IQ was?
    My father was a brillliant man. graduated HS at 15, college at 19, got the highest score ever (at that time) on the math and science test at the SoCal chapter of Mensa...yet he was not able to translate his intellectual ability into being a good father. In that sphere, he was quite handicapped. His IQ didn't result in greater happiness for him or anyone he knew. Because of his childhood, he was an emotional cripple, and he crippled others, as usually happens...
    The reality is that you all you need to be is smart enough. Then the question is: what do you want to do? What do you desire for yourself?
    This is EXACTLY what I was getting at with my babbling about expanding your self-image. This is much more concise though
    What else can you be, besides intelligent? I especially like the idea of getting past this insecurity by focusing more on others. What part of yourself can you develop that aids others as opposed to reinforcing your own ego?
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  8. #18
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    I see the answer as being pretty simple. If you don't feel intelligent instead of resigning to this 'hopeless' fact obtain the knowledge that you see as the most practical. If you were to attain the knowledge, and better yet understand it the insecurities that are the byproduct will disappear and you'll feel accomplished and smart and whatever other synonym that exists. I see in you what until recently was in me. I would 'acknowlege' my failures hoping someone would say it's alright. I would also occasionally accept them and say that I have moved on just so that people would respect and yet again tell me how mature I was being. I still do in some cases and it is a difficult habit to get out of, but if you want to move on you truly do have to let it go and leave it unspoken so that it can be forgotten. There are times when telling a fault is the best way to move on, but true acceptance is stating it and then forgetting about it. Work towards the knowledge you want and everything falls into place. /end opinion.

  9. #19
    Senior Member LunarMoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    As has been mentioned about you (OP), you are unhealthily fixating on intelligence. What this does in effect is to make you an intelligence elitest. You imply, by your own self loathing, that intelligence and measuring yourself by it against other people is the sole value of human worth. I consider myself reasonably intelligent, but I know many irl who are smarter than me, and many many more online who are smarter than me. If you expand the competition to types of intelligence, then that guy down the street that can take apart and put an engine together by memory, but has a vocabulary of 5 words is more intelligent than me.
    I feel somewhat bad about saying this but intelligence is an extremely important component in accomplishing ones goals. I don’t feel that anyone is doing anyone else a favor by claiming otherwise, anymore than would be true if someone were to say that social skills or even physical attractiveness don’t effect one’s station in life. In an equal world, then yes, perhaps they wouldn’t, but in this particular one, your ability to reason and understand issues, to get along with and understand others, and to appeal to others physically are extremely important in accomplishing one’s goals, whatever those goals may be. We should at least admit that if whatever intellectual abilities you have that are necessary for a particular job are below average, than you are going to have a very hard time becoming a lawyer, scientist, doctor, engineer, or corporate CEO. It severely short changes your options.

    The good news, though, is that you’ve presented no evidence that you’re in this position, while in comparison, there’s a great deal that you can most likely do to increase your abilities. The ability to apply various intellectual faculties has been shown to be correlated with whether a person believes that their intelligence is set in stone or whether it can be increased. So simply believing that intelligence is a malleable concept will vastly increase your ability to better these faculties.

    You, like just about everyone else, also have not proven at all that you have maxed out your overall potential. In fact, it seemed to be the contrary, when you mentioned that you simply stopped trying at a certain point. So you have to ask yourself. Do you want to end up contemplating this situation a decade from now or are you going to do something about it? Whether you actually have the “potential” to make vast contributions to humanity or not, you’ll never find out until you’ve pushed yourself to your limits just as everyone else who has accomplished anything worthwhile has had to do. People such as Bill Gates only make it look easy since the public only sees the end result of what in actuality, is several years of hard work.
    Surgeons replace one of your neurons with a microchip that duplicates its input-output functions. You feel and behave exactly as before. Then they replace a second one, and a third one, and so on, until more and more of your brain becomes silicon. Since each microchip does exactly what the neuron did, your behavior and memory never change. Do you even notice the difference? Does it feel like dying? Is some other conscious entity moving in with you?
    -Steven Pinker on the Ship of Theseus Paradox

  10. #20
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMoon View Post
    I feel somewhat bad about saying this but intelligence is an extremely important component in accomplishing ones goals. I don’t feel that anyone is doing anyone else a favor by claiming otherwise, anymore than would be true if someone were to say that social skills or even physical attractiveness don’t effect one’s station in life. In an equal world, then yes, perhaps they wouldn’t, but in this particular one, your ability to reason and understand issues, to get along with and understand others, and to appeal to others physically are extremely important in accomplishing one’s goals, whatever those goals may be. We should at least admit that if whatever intellectual abilities you have that are necessary for a particular job are below average, than you are going to have a very hard time becoming a lawyer, scientist, doctor, engineer, or corporate CEO. It severely short changes your options.

    The good news, though, is that you’ve presented no evidence that you’re in this position, while in comparison, there’s a great deal that you can most likely do to increase your abilities. The ability to apply various intellectual faculties has been shown to be correlated with whether a person believes that their intelligence is set in stone or whether it can be increased. So simply believing that intelligence is a malleable concept will vastly increase your ability to better these faculties.

    You, like just about everyone else, also have not proven at all that you have maxed out your overall potential. In fact, it seemed to be the contrary, when you mentioned that you simply stopped trying at a certain point. So you have to ask yourself. Do you want to end up contemplating this situation a decade from now or are you going to do something about it? Whether you actually have the “potential” to make vast contributions to humanity or not, you’ll never find out until you’ve pushed yourself to your limits just as everyone else who has accomplished anything worthwhile has had to do. People such as Bill Gates only make it look easy since the public only sees the end result of what in actuality, is several years of hard work.
    I have to disagree with you. Potential to accomplish great things doesn't require intelligence. It requires any numbers of combinations of things: perserverance, intelligence, resources, talent, and most of all serendipity.

    Accomplishing a goal is easy depending on where you set the goal. But, some goals will always be out of certain people's reach if they are missing any one ingredient. When I read about people wanting to achieve *something*, I substitute in my head with what I think their unspoken desire is: to be content. I don't believe this requires intelligence.

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