User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 33

  1. #11
    ..... Intricate Mystic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    599

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    Hmmmm, this is more difficult than I first believed it would be. I suppose it would be like me (who lives in the U.S.) contemplating about what it's like going across the ocean to Europe and the Eastern countries. I can't really theorize, or analyze what it's like because the only way to understand what it's like is to actually go. I could look at pictures, but they don't always encapsulate what the experience is like. Only going over to that land and living it can I understand and know what it's like. Introducing a thought (i.e. going over to Europe) that can only be experienced. Does this help?
    Well, I guess this works if the person has the self-awareness to realize they are: 1) brooding over a problem 2) not finding an answer and 3) need to make themselves think of a different problem that can only be solved by personally experiencing the situation. The person I know who is currently Ti looping unfortunately didn't have the self-awareness to realize they were stuck until I pointed it out to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Meditate so you stop thinking and approach the issue with your intuition instead of your mind. It's the only way I solve serious life questions. The answer is usually not something I could have anticipated. Usually.

    If you don't know how to meditate, just relax and stop trying to solve anything. Take a few hours off.
    I think this might be the best solution. The person who has this problem actually did something like this today, and it was extremely helpful. Intuition kicked in with an answer for them after a day spent not thinking of the issue at hand.

  2. #12
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That. Ne/Se is useful for breaking cognitive lock -- where your rationality leads you into a loop or a particular way of seeing things, and you can only break out by adding new information to the mix.

    Ironically, I found F functions to be helpful because they offer other means of processing. Ti is impersonal, which is wonderful for removing personal bias; but if you are wrestling with a personal issue where the resolution is some sort of life contentment, T cannot do the trick. (Basic example: "What is the meaning of my life?" You can rationalize until you are blue in the face and come up with lots of wonderful reasons someone might want to live... but if those reasons do not resonate with you on a personal level, then they don't help.)
    I have found out that Ne can make it way worse, since it can offer endless point of views that give Ti even more to analyze. It might help in some Ti Si loops tho, but that depends if it is even possible to find new information or if it will just offer new possible "truths" to analyze.

    If you are trying to figure out some person out(who refuses to let you, but your Ti just wont let you drop it) for example, adding a little Fe to Ti analyze might help you more than Ne, since Ne will just give more to think about while other J function will help you to come to a conclusion.

    What i mean with adding a little Fe to Ti analyze is like getting a firm standpoint where you start your "what ifs" and you do not go beyond that with your Ne, kinda like creating a base for your analysis. Like he/she feels like this, period. Then start analyzing from there instead of using Ne to make you think that what if he/she is feeling like this instead of what is said. Its good to use Ne to give guidance for Ti on for example why he/she is feeling this way. If the thing is something that is really bothering you and you let your Ne go too far and feed too many ideas about possible "truths" your head will explode.

    Other way to add a little F to yout Ti analysis is simply by accepting things that doesent really make any sense to you. Sometimes things just are the way that doesent make any logical sense, most people simply are irrational creatures and there is nothing you can do to change that, so you will just have to accept that. Especially if the thing you try to figure out is an F thing, theres not much that you can do with Ti, unless of course you start to analyze brain chemistry that is causing other people to be irrational, but even that wont change a thing since they will continue being that way and there is nothing you can do about it. if you try to tell someone that you cant feel that way because its irrational(especially to an F user), it will only make things worse.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  3. #13
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Intricate Mystic View Post
    I guessed that the F functions might be helpful. I suppose the exception to that might be if someone is depressed- they wouldn't be able to use how they are feeling at the time to override the Ti loop accurately.
    F isn't about feeling, it's about values. People perhaps determine what they value in part by how passionate they feel about a particular idea, but in general you can hold values without them relying on feelings.
    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    I have found out that Ne can make it way worse, since it can offer endless point of views that give Ti even more to analyze. It might help in some Ti Si loops tho, but that depends if it is even possible to find new information or if it will just offer new possible "truths" to analyze.
    We're talking about T lock in this thread, correct?
    If you're in T lock, you want to get out. We're looking for ways to break the lock.
    And one of the best ways to do that is to add new information that T uses to reach a new conclusion.

    Bottom line: Adding N to the mix certainly won't make things any worse than they already are if you're in T lock, and actually has a really good chance to improve them. You can still limit the amount of information you add, you don't have to immediately go to the opposite extreme and start dealing with "infinite information" so that T gets overloaded.

    It's like T is stuck in the mud, so you add some gas (N) to get the tires spinning. You obviously do not want to just floor the car, or you'll spin your wheels. You add enough gas just to get the tires moving and inch your way out.

    If you are trying to figure out some person out(who refuses to let you, but your Ti just wont let you drop it) for example, adding a little Fe to Ti analyze might help you more than Ne, since Ne will just give more to think about while other J function will help you to come to a conclusion.
    I think I'm going for expediency here. I find N to be extremely useful, but more importantly, it's the first function that INTPs develop aside from Ti, so they're supposedly strong in it. Doesn't it make sense to suggest someone use their auxiliary (which they're skilled at) vs an inferior function that most INTPs can't even seem to discuss without spitting blood until their late 20's?

    I did suggest F because I think it's essentially when it comes to dealing with human beings, but realistically, Ti-primaries seem to have a real hard time appreciating it (and thus devoting the energy to developing it / letting themselves see through its lens) until later in life.

    What i mean with adding a little Fe to Ti analyze is like getting a firm standpoint where you start your "what ifs" and you do not go beyond that with your Ne, kinda like creating a base for your analysis. Like he/she feels like this, period. Then start analyzing from there instead of using Ne to make you think that what if he/she is feeling like this instead of what is said.
    I agree, totally... and really, what you are describing is the ITP emulation of Empathy here, using an Intuitive + Feeling pathway, rather than subjecting the person to critical analysis.

    Its good to use Ne to give guidance for Ti on for example why he/she is feeling this way. If the thing is something that is really bothering you and you let your Ne go too far and feed too many ideas about possible "truths" your head will explode.
    Like Scanners?

    But yes, feelings just are feelings, and people are who they are. ITPs miss the point and actually damage their relationships long-term when they try to resolve relational issues solely through an analytical framework.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #14
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,489

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    I can't say I understand this concept, but of what I do understand, I can't really remember experiencing anything like it.
    Me neither. Sounds really...bizarre. Can we have a real-life example? I'm having trouble imagining how this theory could translate to an actual person. The only time I could imagine not being able to find a logical answer is if it isn't a logical question (relationships, emotions, etc) or if the data are incomplete/false. And that's not really a "loop", more of a dead end. Not to say anyone always acts logically, but it's not hard to see a logical answer most of the time...
    -end of thread-

  5. #15
    Member TacEight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    96

    Default

    Try focusing on Te for a bit. May be difficult if you're not practiced, but bringing everything into a more "realistic light" can help. Think of specific instances or historical facts that help clarify the point, if possible. Focus on things that are real or already proven. This can be difficult but Te wielders can also think outside the box and come up with very plausible/reasonable explanations.

    Next try to see how the answer/problem can be helpful or useful. (This will help you with your "thinking Te" exercise.) If the answer isn't useful or helpful, try ruling it out and moving on.

    That aside I'd try asking other non-Ti's what they think on the matter. INTJs would be quick to give you a result probably, although it may be very difficult to communicate with their Ni/Te combination.
    INTP - Ti > Ne > Te > Ni > Fi > Se > Fe > Si

    I am not a Strange Loop, for I will always grow and mature.

    Society is a Strange Loop, preventing us from growing and maturing.

  6. #16
    Member Schaph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    IxTx
    Enneagram
    5w6
    Socionics
    LSE
    Posts
    43

    Default

    solution:
    online test: 6ISTP/5INTP/5INTJ/3ISTJ/1ISFP/1ENFJ
    people's suggestion: 1ISFP
    ......../ Bunny says,......\
    ........\Ask me anything./
    ............)/
    ./\_/\..../
    (O .O)
    [^_u )

  7. #17
    ..... Intricate Mystic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    599

    Default

    I can do better than a real-life example- I'll give you the real-life example: My IxTP husband is in love with a woman he met at work who got fired and now lives in another state. He was so besotted with her that pretty soon after she got fired, he started plotting with her to create a job for himself where she now works. He was successful in this, got a job offer from her employer recently, and has been debating whether to take that job that's less secure, pays less, and would involve leaving his wife of 25 years (me) and our 2 mostly grown children to be with this woman. (Oh, and she has a HUSBAND by the way). He has been driving me nuts with his inability to make a decision of whether or not to leave the great job he has now (which he now hates because the woman isn't there anymore) to be with her. He says he doesn't want to hurt me, and every time I get upset and cry at the prospect of my husband of 25 years no longer living with me he gets extremely depressed (borderline suicidal) and stops packing his stuff. Then, he texts her/talks to her and gets in a more cheerful frame of mind (because she's trying to get him to take the job at her workplace) and he gets a little motivated to box up more of his stuff for a possible move. It's been back and forth like this for months, ever since it started looking like he was going to get the job offer. He has literally been stuck weighing the pros and cons of keeping his current job (which he has been successful in) and staying with me and being with our children vs. venturing into the scary but exciting unknown of accepting a new job that he may or may not be successful in to be with his married "soulmate". He is crazy, but being the nice person that I am I'm trying to help him make a decision. I'm tired of telling him it's a bad career move, he's destroying our family, that going after a woman who is cheating on her 2nd husband is not a recipe for long-term happiness, etc. etc., so I asked the Ti loop question to try to help him just make a damn decision so I can get on with life and divorce him/go to marriage counseling/whatever.

    Edit: Sorry if that was a bit of rant.
    Last edited by Intricate Mystic; 10-13-2010 at 10:24 PM. Reason: add more

  8. #18
    ReflecTcelfeR
    Guest

    Default

    Give him a time limit. After the time has elapsed pose an ultimatum. Don't cater to him, it may be difficult, but this sounds like ludicrous on his part.

  9. #19
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,489

    Default

    Oh so it is a non-logical situation after all. So "being rational" isn't really going to happen.

    1) marriage counseling
    2) stand up for yourself - he's treating you like garbage and you're giving him the choice?
    3) why do you think he's not going to cheat on you again if he stays? especially if he only stays because you persuaded him, not because he actually felt any remorse or wanted to save your marriage (obviously he doesn't since he needs to be convinced and still won't decide). He's just trying to get the best deal for himself without considering the feelings of anyone else involved. Is that really who you want to be with?
    -end of thread-

  10. #20
    ..... Intricate Mystic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    599

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    Give him a time limit. After the time has elapsed pose an ultimatum. Don't cater to him, it may be difficult, but this sounds like ludicrous on his part.
    We agreed on a two-week limit for him to make a decision. After the two weeks ended, he still couldn't decide. I filed for divorce after that, but it takes several weeks for it to get recorded and for him to be served. He is making use of that time to further drive me up the wall and give me unreasonable offers (such as he could stay with the job he currently has, we would stay married but he would still have "feelings" for the other woman and he would be "moping around and sad". He would also still plan to try to be with the other woman at some indeterminate point in the future. I would continue to have the very cushy lifestyle I currently enjoy and could be bankrolled in getting a career going.) I told him no way would I accept that arrangement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Oh so it is a non-logical situation after all. So "being rational" isn't really going to happen.

    1) marriage counseling

    2) stand up for yourself - he's treating you like garbage and you're giving him the choice?

    3) why do you think he's not going to cheat on you again if he stays? especially if he only stays because you persuaded him, not because he actually felt any remorse or wanted to save your marriage (obviously he doesn't since he needs to be convinced and still won't decide). He's just trying to get the best deal for himself without considering the feelings of anyone else involved. Is that really who you want to be with?
    We went to marriage counseling, but the counselor told him he would have to cease all contact with the other woman, and he wasn't willing to do that. I really don't understand why he wanted to go to counseling in the first place!

    Yes he is treating me like crap but this wasn't always the case. In reading about men and mid-life crisis, men can be seemingly happy for years and then suddenly do a 180 degree turn- they start thinking that their marriage has actually been awful when all evidence points to the contrary. Falling testosterone levels in men who are getting older can do strange things to their brains. Also, I think death starts looming and they realize they aren't going to live forever. This can have a powerful effect on the psyche.

    He was faithful all of those years of our marriage up to this point, so he is certainly capable of being so again in the future. Whether or not he actually would be is debatable at this point. I think you are correct in saying that he just wants to get the best deal for himself. He is being so incredibly selfish.

Similar Threads

  1. What do you get out of debating controversial issues on this forum?
    By sofmarhof in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 04-20-2015, 08:20 PM
  2. [NF] How do you get over the bitterness?
    By KLessard in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 05-07-2010, 05:10 PM
  3. [MBTItm] NFs, do you get tired of giving people "the benefit of the doubt"?
    By chatoyer in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 07-30-2009, 05:57 PM
  4. [INFJ] INFJs and/or HSPs: Do you get depressed in the wrong kind of job?
    By karenk in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 10-27-2008, 11:29 PM
  5. [MBTItm] How do you get along with the SJs?
    By nolla in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 06-05-2008, 03:13 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO