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  1. #31
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post
    Researchers say that people who sleep 5 to 6 hours live longer then people who sleep a full 8 so thats good.
    Yes!!!

    I win at life!

  2. #32
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Smarter -> better education -> more money -> laxer work schedule & more hours worked

    This is the most likely mechanism, the fact that there's no correlation during weekends further supports this conclusion.
    This.

    How it took 3 pages for someone to say this, I have no idea.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  3. #33
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Smarter -> better education
    /fail

    being smart doesent mean that you will automatically get a good education. being well educated does how ever mean that you have much information, but thats a whole different thing than being actually a smart person
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    /fail

    being smart doesent mean that you will automatically get a good education. being well educated does how ever mean that you have much information, but thats a whole different thing than being actually a smart person
    agreed. I didn't even know how to address his assertion that smart people always have a better education a good job and more money, or that even having more education makes one "smarter"...those actually appear to very SJ methods of measuring intelligence

  5. #35
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    /fail

    being smart doesent mean that you will automatically get a good education. being well educated does how ever mean that you have much information, but thats a whole different thing than being actually a smart person
    It's not a fail. On average, smarter people do get better education - that's a fact. Sure, this doesn't hold for each individual, however most studies average out individual effects, so the relationship between "smartness" and "education" will generally hold, if their sample was well-selected.

    agreed. I didn't even know how to address his assertion that smart people always have a better education a good job and more money, or that even having more education makes one "smarter"...those actually appear to very SJ methods of measuring intelligence
    No, you didn't understand my post. I never said that smart people always have a better education. Statistically however - thus, on average - they do have a better education, there's a large amount of studies that have been carried out on the subject matter - what causes being "smart" isn't my concern now, it's sufficient that my definition collimates with the one being used in the original.

    No, education doesn't make you any smarter - I never implied such causation either (again: smarter people on average have better education, having better education on average leads to jobs with laxer work schedules - that's all I'm saying).
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  6. #36
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    It's not a fail. On average, smarter people do get better education - that's a fact. Sure, this doesn't hold for each individual, however most studies average out individual effects, so the relationship between "smartness" and "education" will generally hold, if their sample was well-selected.



    No, you didn't understand my post. I never said that smart people always have a better education. Statistically however - thus, on average - they do have a better education, there's a large amount of studies that have been carried out on the subject matter - what causes being "smart" isn't my concern now, it's sufficient that my definition collimates with the one being used in the original.

    No, education doesn't make you any smarter - I never implied such causation either (again: smarter people on average have better education, having better education on average leads to jobs with laxer work schedules - that's all I'm saying).
    if something is fact average, it doesent mean that it would be the whole truth. therefore you fail if you think that fact by average is the truth. therefore the relationship of education and being smart does not hold, since its only so in some cases. it doesent matter if its so by 75 or 90%, its still true only on some cases, so it only holds when you look at it by average, but since average does not equal truth, it is not the truth.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  7. #37
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    if something is fact average, it doesent mean that it would be the whole truth. therefore you fail if you think that fact by average is the truth. therefore the relationship of education and being smart does not hold, since its only so in some cases. it doesent matter if its so by 75 or 90%, its still true only on some cases, so it only holds when you look at it by average, but since average does not equal truth, it is not the truth.
    The same is valid for whatever's been said by the study linked by the original poster. So, it's still a valid refutation, because we start from the same set of premises. The relationship between being smart and education (NOT the reverse, as you wrongy say) still holds on average. I understand your objection, but you're definitely nitpicking - we're not trying to discover a new physical law, in which case we would need a 100 % correspondence. "Social" sciences are fuzzier (unfortunately) - there's nothing which holds in 100% of the cases.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  8. #38
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    The same is valid for whatever's been said by the study linked by the original poster. So, it's still a valid refutation, because we start from the same set of premises. The relationship between being smart and education (NOT the reverse, as you wrongy say) still holds on average. I understand your objection, but you're definitely nitpicking - we're not trying to discover a new physical law, in which case we would need a 100 % correspondence. "Social" sciences are fuzzier (unfortunately) - there's nothing which holds in 100% of the cases.
    statistics that are measured by average only give you guidance for the truth, its not the truth itself. its just the fact about average, not fact on the truth.

    imo being smart means that you get this kind of stuff and that you realize that something by average is not the truth. if you mix these two things, it will lead you to wrong conclusions about the full truth, therefore its not smart to mix these two things together.

    social sciences measure averages(atleast usually), its not meant to even find the whole truth.

    im not nitpicking, im just providing you the information that your Te leaves out and leads you to make ignorant conclusions
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  9. #39
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    statistics that are measured by average only give you guidance for the truth, its not the truth itself. its just the fact about average, not fact on the truth.

    imo being smart means that you get this kind of stuff and that you realize that something by average is not the truth. if you mix these two things, it will lead you to wrong conclusions about the full truth, therefore its not smart to mix these two things together.

    social sciences measure averages(atleast usually), its not meant to even find the whole truth.

    im not nitpicking, im just providing you the information that your Te leaves out and leads you to make ignorant conclusions
    Sorry but I know perfectly well what you're talking about, you don't need to provide me with this extremely basic information in such a condescending fashion, I was aware of it of since middle school.

    The problem here is that we don't have (yet) a precise way to reconstruct "molecular" truth up to how each everyday happening takes place, thus we need to use (by their nature, "incorrect") statistical methods. We can also opt not to use them & avoid discussing everything which results from them, yet if that were the case this forum wouldn't exist either, since MBTI isn't "true" the way you want any given theory to be "true".
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  10. #40
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Sorry but I know perfectly well what you're talking about, you don't need to provide me with this extremely basic information in such a condescending fashion, I was aware of it of since middle school.

    The problem here is that we don't have (yet) a precise way to reconstruct "molecular" truth up to how each everyday happening takes place, thus we need to use (by their nature, "incorrect") statistical methods. We can also opt not to use them & avoid discussing everything which results from them, yet if that were the case this forum wouldn't exist either, since MBTI isn't "true" the way you want any given theory to be "true".
    but the deal here is that you said that being smart leads to good education. this is only a fact when you look at statistics that are based on average. but since its not the truth and you get to conclusions using information about statistics as if it was the truth you fail. and you fail even harder if you know that those are two totally different things and still get to false conclusions.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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