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Child abuse and ideological thinking

onemoretime

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Now, I don't agree with the Objectivist bent of the speaker, but I think he brings up a lot of good points that are worth considering:

[youtube="yT4tzwH_K8M"]Child abuse[/youtube]

Let me know what y'all think.
 

Lark

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Yeah, I watched a short bit of that and then decided that I hate the guy so I couldnt finish it, its straight forward pathologising of opposition, its reductive to say the least to suppose that all opposition to your own ideology is madness and incredibly egotistical and narcissistic to suppose that you are in possession of objective truth pure and simple and others are going to simply have to come around to that point of view.

Its interesting to see that it is being articulated by hardened capitalists now because you could easily change a word here and there and you have the practices which in the USSR resulted in dissident intellectuallys being hospitalised in psychiatric wards indefinitely for failing to grasp scientific socialism or historical materialism.

The point at which I shut off was the point at which he suggested that trauma resulted in individuals constructing ideologies to explain that the world was broken and not they themselves, OK, yet he attributed that trauma to a number of external factors, ie schools, terror, parenting, WTF? Where's the reason and evidence there? Producing arguments which within their own structure, although presented in a didactic and pedantic fashion and inconsistent with themselves? What?

For a long time I've constructed my own theories about attachment style, trauma, emotional literacy and social psychology and socialism as I understand it but I never took it on the road preacher style to teach everyone that if they dissent from my view they are irrational and adhere to an insane ideology.
 

nolla

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Well, I still find it strange that there is no license needed to have children... :yes:
 

Chunes

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Maybe it's just 3AM.. but the fact that you don't need a license to have children is a pretty good reason not to require a license to have children. To implement something like that would require you to choose which traits good parents should have. I don't trust anyone not to assume their own social groups contain superior parents.

On the other hand, most parents are inconsiderate, ignorant fools who ignore their children and whose priorities are abhorrent. That part of me very much wishes we would deny procreation to the general populace.
 

nolla

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I'm not completely serious with that. It would be hard to implement and drawing the line is morally... weird. But they do take a close look on the people getting an adoption.
 

Thalassa

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So everyone has brain damage, according to him.
 

Thalassa

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Otherwise I agree with him, though. I mean, children who are abused obviously develop emotional or mental issues because of it. It's been linked to borderline personality disorder, among other things.
 

nolla

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So everyone has brain damage, according to him.

That's what I agree. I still haven't met a healthy person. Well, I would say something like "distorted perception or cognition", not brain damage, but the idea is close enough.
 

Thalassa

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That's what I agree. I still haven't met a healthy person. Well, I would say something like "distorted perception or cognition", not brain damage, but the idea is close enough.

I think his claim that almost everyone alive has been traumatized to the point of brain damage is going to detract from the point of the rest of his message, honestly.

But, yes, there are many, many broken people in the world. I am one of them. Only a small percentage of people I know came from homes where they were treated with unconditional love, acceptance, and respect.

On the other hand, demonizing parents isn't really a good idea always ... all people are neurotic. Everyone. And those parents who emotionally or physically abuse their children were most often emotionally or physically abused themselves, and so on, and so forth.

The only thing that anyone can do is try to work together to try to love and accept other people and not abuse each other. It's hard though because everyone makes mistakes.

I honestly think that's where the Christian philosophy sprung up with the idea of forgiveness. Forgiveness is a pretty socially evolutionary idea in terms of living with other human beings. The problem is that it seems to pretty difficult for most people, whether they are Christian or atheist or whatever.
 

Vasilisa

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It reminded me of Geoffrey Canada's efforts to get children in Harlem out of poverty by first focusing on earliest childhood development. The baby college program teaches parents to discipline their children verbally instead of relying on hitting which the majority of them did.
 

nolla

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I think his claim that almost everyone alive has been traumatized to the point of brain damage is going to detract from the point of the rest of his message, honestly.

But, yes, there are many, many broken people in the world. I am one of them. Only a small percentage of people I know came from homes where they were treated with unconditional love, acceptance, and respect.

On the other hand, demonizing parents isn't really a good idea always ... all people are neurotic. Everyone. And those parents who emotionally or physically abuse their children were most often emotionally or physically abused themselves, and so on, and so forth.

The only thing that anyone can do is try to work together to try to love and accept other people and not abuse each other. It's hard though because everyone makes mistakes.

I honestly think that's where the Christian philosophy sprung up with the idea of forgiveness. Forgiveness is a pretty socially evolutionary idea in terms of living with other human beings. The problem is that it seems to pretty difficult for most people, whether they are Christian or atheist or whatever.

Yes, I agree. I was basically just defining unhealthy to cover 99.9 percent of people. Not really saying anything about the cause...
 

Thalassa

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Yes, I agree. I was basically just defining unhealthy to cover 99.9 percent of people. Not really saying anything about the cause...

Where is the normative range for healthy, exactly, if 99.9% of people are "unhealthy"?

That's seems like ideological hocus pocus, to me.
 

Resonance

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The trick is that 'damaged' isn't just qualitative. We're not just all fucked up; we're all really, badly fucked up (or 99.9% of us, whatever.) There's not a chance on this earth that we'll be able to turn around and be the perfect parents. Even if we understand the gravity and the importance of controlling our behaviour in that way, we'll still slip up once in a while.

It isn't qualitative...it's quantitative. If we do our best to be good parents, even if we fuck up once in a while...if we can recognize that we fucked up, and own up to it, and apologize, our kids will be that much better off. And maybe they'll be the ones to score A+ on parenting.





...of course, I'm not gonna have kids... and I doubt all that many in this thread are...


...well...
 

Chloe

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didnt yet watch OP video: but i am just wondering how many people were [sexually] abused and repressed it, i've heard that the number is quite big, and reading about ssome therapies that go very deep, it's amazing how many people relive those memories. it could be much more present than it seems.
 

nolla

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Where is the normative range for healthy, exactly, if 99.9% of people are "unhealthy"?

That's seems like ideological hocus pocus, to me.

Maybe. I think that because of all the damaging factors, most of the people are damaged so bad that they see the world as one big projection of their unconsciousnesses. By healthy I mean a person who has been able to eliminate that projection. You could call everybody healthy unless proven otherwise, but I see my view more optimistic, since it gives me the possibility to become healthy while the other view would say I am just fine until I slip into psychosis.
 

Quiet

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Hmmm, this video was very interesting. It actually made me a bit sad. I was able to see much truth in his points. When I reflect back on my childhood and wonder why I do not have much memory recall, I attribute it to exactly this. That I do not know that I don't know. All I do know though, was that I tried very hard to forget most of it. (and then I wonder how much of my brain is possibly damaged, ha ha).

At any rate, it was always a goal of mine to be a better parent than my own parents were. In many ways I do feel I am a much better parent to my own children now, and even have to put my parents in their places when they are ignorant and belittling to my children when they visit. But it makes so much sense as to why in all my adult relationships, I have looked for people who I could trust that would not hurt me, yet still managed to choose the ones who would. Differential association, (or face to face learning). So agreed with the video, that our core wiring happens in the early years. And to get help with reprogramming while an adult. :)
 

Mole

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Alice Miller and Lloyd deMause

Hmmm, this video was very interesting. It actually made me a bit sad. I was able to see much truth in his points. When I reflect back on my childhood and wonder why I do not have much memory recall, I attribute it to exactly this. That I do not know that I don't know. All I do know though, was that I tried very hard to forget most of it. (and then I wonder how much of my brain is possibly damaged, ha ha).

At any rate, it was always a goal of mine to be a better parent than my own parents were. In many ways I do feel I am a much better parent to my own children now, and even have to put my parents in their places when they are ignorant and belittling to my children when they visit. But it makes so much sense as to why in all my adult relationships, I have looked for people who I could trust that would not hurt me, yet still managed to choose the ones who would. Differential association, (or face to face learning). So agreed with the video, that our core wiring happens in the early years. And to get help with reprogramming while an adult. :)

Yes, I have been struck by the writings of Alice Miller on child abuse.

And also by the writings of Lloyd deMause.

Alice Miller was a wonderful therapist while Lloyd wrote the history of child abuse. And together they give a complete picture.

And together they inform my whole thinking.
 

BlueGray

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didnt yet watch OP video: but i am just wondering how many people were [sexually] abused and repressed it, i've heard that the number is quite big, and reading about ssome therapies that go very deep, it's amazing how many people relive those memories. it could be much more present than it seems.

Always take deep therapies with a grain of salt. Often times what is dug up is fiction.
 
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