Don't cure Bipolar Disorder, ADD, Dyslexia, Autism, or Schizophrenia!

[King sns]

Well, I disagree with all of the stuff that you wrote in the OP. Many people with mental disorders struggle greatly to function in this society, regardless of their other strengths. It's just very difficult to thrive with the added burden of extreme depression or hallucinations or lack of social skills or whatever. Balance is required for happiness in living. (In current society.) It is also required to handle most everyday problems. (Finances, health, family...)

However, I don't hear about much effort to try to cure these diseases to begin with. I hear about a lot of medicating for symptoms and not too much about trying to figure out roots and trends in the problem.

 

[King sns]

And I think a lot of time the strengths can be the exception to the rule.
Schizophrenia, for instance.
Many are geniuses, but over time, left untreated, schizophrenics will incorporate more and more bizarre behaviors until they are completely homeless, nonsensical, on drugs (to self-medicate), and sitting on their death bed. The disease is very degenerative. It doesn't maintain this level of "semi-cookoo genius." It is dangerous and in it's scariest form you can have a serial murderer on the loose.

Bipolar: Yes... Maybe at it's most manic level you may have this crazy artist coming up with all these amazing pieces of art or in any job, able to work so much and with great passion that they can come up with amazing things.. But, what about everything else? What about the depressive end of their mood when they want to commit suicide? Or the hundreds of bipolar people who use their manias on dangerous sex and going hundreds of thousands of dollars on debt in spending sprees?

What about the hundreds of autistic kids who may have a talent in one specific area but would rather just fit in with all the other kids? What does that do for their quality of life?

 

[ReadingRainbows]

I'm too tired to elucidate, but this is what I want to make a 20 minute presentation on in an ethics/philosophy course.

My two salient points would be:
-What defines normal, anyway?
-These people usually correlate with extreme intelligence and strengths in other areas (most geniuses are mentally disturbed)
-Causes discrimination and misinformation through misdiagnoses

I'd like to here thoughts on this, though, on why we SHOULDN'T cure mental diseases.

After you've been affected personally, then I say you come back here, and you tell us YOUR thoughts. I knew lady when I was in treatment, that now has to go for shock therapy from a traumatic event (that she had no control over by the way) that happened 10 + years ago, and not because she doesn't choose to get over it, it's because She has Bipolar and PTSD and it is bad. Now, I'm of the mindset that it's cruel to allow people to suffer like that with no help.

Educate Yourself Please.

 

[Tigerlily]

After you've been affected personally, then I say you come back here, and you tell us YOUR thoughts. I knew lady when I was in treatment, that now has to go for shock therapy from a traumatic event (that she had no control over by the way) that happened 10 + years ago, and not because she doesn't choose to get over it, it's because She has Bipolar and PTSD and it is bad. Now, I'm of the mindset that it's cruel to allow people to suffer like that with no help.

Educate Yourself Please.

I could be wrong, but I think he's simply gathering information. Seems to be going well.

 

[Halla74]

Don't cure anything that keeps the fun medicines from being dispensed.

Get rid of all the sissy medicines.

That will fix alot.

 

[wildcat]

A lot of artists and writers have been inspired by their horrible childhoods or tragic events. Therefore, we should not try to remove children from unfit homes or try to prevent accidents, or try to save lives with medical treatment, because we could be preventing the development of the next Beethoven.

edit: [/sarcasm]

By the way, it'd be slightly less blatant cheating if you at least asked for points against your argument (so you could think about counterarguments). The whole point of a philosophy class is developing logical arguments, not stealing them off the internet....

An unfit home. What an appellation.

This is the term the social sector uses.
Autist kids refuse to eat certain kinds of foodstuffs. It is a known fact.
There was an autist kid who refused to eat berry porridge at school. The teacher contacted the social sector. The kid was promptly removed from his home. It was an unfit home.
A home that had not compelled an autist kid to eat the kind of food autist kids do not eat.

 

[nozflubber]

hah im not going to give you my reasonings for why i think some of them have utility in many situations.... thats sekretz 4 me.

what i will do is agree with you on the following:


Bipolar, ADD, autism and schizophrenia all have, or go along-side with, very adaptive traits.


ESPECIALLY autism. as it is a blanket diagnosis, it worngly covers those who are not diseased but are a product of evolution. 50 % of the genius savants out there also meet criteria for full blown autism. some of the abilities autsies have are utterly astounding, there's an autist in Russia who can recall strings of 100+ digits presented in 3-4 seconds with nearly 100% accuracy. I personally think Cavendish was autistic - the traits are certainly there in his bio anyway.

not sure why dyslexia makes that list. it doesnt really accompany anything else from what i can tell, and its doesnt have any side benefits.

 

[INTP]

Curing a broken leg is ok but...curing a person who suffers from BPD is ...not?

curing a broken leg is wrong because having one broken leg will make the other one stronger!

 

[guesswho]

And larger.

 

[stringstheory]

you know, as someone diagnosed with bipolar disorder I actually do think about this from time to time and I think to some degree I agree.

I often ponder this when I'm reflecting on what has triggered a recent depressive episode. I mentioned this in another thread on the subject but it fucking SUCKS to live in a world that just utterly tramples your values, which is commonly my trigger. There's literally no escape, you are trapped. That's scary. Obviously my brain/body chemistry plays a big role in how i cope with this, but the outside influences are why I have to cope in the first place. i can't help but wonder sometimes where the problem really lies: with me or the outside world? Of course the answer is a little bit of both but....still, how's that any different than a "normal" person. Considering the above i can't see how that wouldn't be difficult to cope with from time to time.

Yes the negatives really suck, and i mean REALLY suck. What i go through when i'm unstable is awful and while it was hard to admit at first i am grateful for the assistance i receive in order to cope. but there's a difference between "treating" and "curing". Just because i am being treated for bipolar disorder doesn't mean it's been cured. It doesn't go away. when I'm healthy and stable i LIKE that person, and if that were to be "cured" I have little doubt that i'd be an entirely different person regardless of the status of my health or stability. To imply otherwise is...well, i don't know. Something about that disturbs me a little. I very much believe this applies to my mother (ADHD), my two brothers (Dyslexia/non-verbal learning disabilities, and Tourette's) and my father (Bipolar/OCD).

In terms of how I think this relates to other "disorders" i'd recommend the book "Kids in the Syndrome Mix"; it's a great intro to co-morbid disorders like Bipolar, ADHD (if you're going to be doing a presentation on this, be aware that ADD is technically not an official diagnosis anymore; it's now "ADHD w/out hyperactivity"), Tourette's, OCD, Central Auditory Processing Disorders (CAPD) non-verbal learning disabilities like Dyslexia, Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD), Depression, Asperger's/ASD, and sensory integration disorder (SID). this might give you a great idea of the bigger picture of non-NT brains and how these are ALL intertwined, and help you with your presentation.

 

[INTP]

real solution is a proper diagnosing, not leaving this kind of illnesses untreated..

 

[Arclight]

I'm too tired to elucidate, but this is what I want to make a 20 minute presentation on in an ethics/philosophy course.

My two salient points would be:
-What defines normal, anyway?
-These people usually correlate with extreme intelligence and strengths in other areas (most geniuses are mentally disturbed)
-Causes discrimination and misinformation through misdiagnoses

I'd like to here thoughts on this, though, on why we SHOULDN'T cure mental diseases.

I present to you the subject of Psychological Homeostasis..

This is why we should try to cure or treat mental illness.

Neural Being: Psychological Homeostasis

 

[Blown Ghost]

Do you suffer from any of these conditions? If not, then I don't think you have any basis to comment on the cost of treating or not treating them.

 

[Nijntje]

A disease is something you catch, a mental illness is a chemical imbalance in the brain. Be careful about your distinctions.

How can you 'cure' something that isn't actually a disease?

-What defines normal, anyway?

Normal is not having hallucinations that the sky is going to fall in on you.
Normal is the ability to actually be able to get out of bed in the morning (most anyway) and see enough of a point to even existing that you actually DO get out of bed.
Normal is not feeling so detached that it is like you are living your life looking in on someone else.
Normal is not COMPULSIVE nameless, faceless, degrading sex with strangers because you need to feel SOMETHING, anything, more than what you currently do.
Normal is not cutting yourself to ribbons because you cannot articulate the immense feelings you have inside.
Normal is not selling everything you own and moving overseas in a two week period with no job, no money and using everyone who is kind enough to let you in.
Normal is the feeling i have when my medication works and the feeling is f*cking amazingly indescribable. I didn't even KNOW what 'normal' felt like until i was 27.

-These people usually correlate with extreme intelligence and strengths in other areas (most geniuses are mentally disturbed)

Sure, i can be creative, i'm good at art and write well, but genius? Sorry, i seem to have missed out on that one. In fact, i seem to have missed this entire year of university because of repeated relapses of my Bi-Polar. I guess my "genius" will kick in and i won't have to take my classes all over again.

-Causes discrimination and misinformation through misdiagnoses
With this point, what exactly are you asking? That the diagnosis of mental illness causes discrimination or that people with them are discriminated against? I'm a little confused by this one.

But my opinion is just my own, and more slightly tainted by the fact that I've had a shitty year with my illness.

 

[King sns]

Do you suffer from any of these conditions? If not, then I don't think you have any basis to comment on the cost of treating or not treating them.

Well this is why I took some interest in the topic. I think that many "sufferers" of mental illnesses may actually feel the same way as the OP...

(Well, I should clarify. While they may want to treat the negatives of their illnesses, they will really miss the positives... To the point that they may not want to treat their illness or may not consider it to be an illness at all.. Considering the benefits.)

 

[stringstheory]

Well this is why I took some interest in the topic. I think that many "sufferers" of mental illnesses may actually feel the same way as the OP.

yeah, exactly.

i mean, again, curing =/= treating. I'm still bipolar even if I'm on my meds, and i LOVE that person. being cured would entail totally rewiring me and that make me pause a little.

 

[King sns]

yeah, exactly.

i mean, again, curing =/= treating. I'm still bipolar even if I'm on my meds, but being cured would entail totally rewiring me. that make me pause a little.

Well, curing does not equal treating in my mind. BUT.... Given options... Would you rather be untreated, treated, or cured completely? (You may have to give some thought about what it would be like to be cured completely, since that is currently unavailable) (I guess we are just carrying on from my thread) (and of course you are welcome to talk about any options other than my three...)

 

[King sns]

Well, curing does not equal treating in my mind. BUT.... Given options... Would you rather be untreated, treated, or cured completely? (You may have to give some thought about what it would be like to be cured completely, since that is currently unavailable) (I guess we are just carrying on from my thread) (and of course you are welcome to talk about any options other than my three...)

I would imagine people would like to be cured of the unsatisfactory symptoms, yet uncured of the satisfactory symptoms... Which would make them some kind of a superhero...

 

[stringstheory]

Well, curing does not equal treating in my mind.

no, that's what i'm saying too...=/= was supposed to be like the does not equal sign, lol

BUT.... Given options... Would you rather be untreated, treated, or cured completely? (You may have to give some thought about what it would be like to be cured completely, since that is currently unavailable)

yeah that's kind of what i meant in my initial post. "curing" me would entail totally rewiring me and that's what makes me pause. I see a lot of my "disorder" as being the way that I think....and not all of it is bad! again i've always been glad for the assistance i have coping with the negative via my treatment, but sometimes i can't help but think about if it's really so abnormal that I have a hard time coping in the first place. if that makes sense. i dunno, i see it as a rather complex issue.

I would imagine people would like to be cured of the unsatisfactory symptoms, yet uncured of the satisfactory symptoms... Which would make them some kind of a superhero...

i'd say that falls under the category of "treatment", haha.

i mean, assuming of course that things will never get hairy ever again. Treatment is never a guarantee of that, but again even neurotypical people go through that..

 

[King sns]

no, that's what i'm saying too...=/= was supposed to be like the does not equal sign, lol



yeah that's kind of what i meant in my initial post. "curing" me would entail totally rewiring me and that's what makes me pause. I see a lot of my "disorder" as being the way that I think....and not all of it is bad! again i've always been glad for the assistance i have coping with the negative via my treatment, but sometimes i can't help but think about if it's really so abnormal that I have a hard time coping in the first place. if that makes sense. i dunno, i see it as a rather complex issue.



i'd say that falls under the category of "treatment", haha.

i mean, assuming of course that things will never get hairy ever again. Treatment is never a guarantee of that, but again even neurotypical people go through that..

When I think about "treatment" I think about medications and therapy. Do you agree? I never thought that medications and therapy turned people into superheroes. But that sometimes medication turns people into nothing- and therapy can help people cope.

I agree with everything you say, (being someone without acute mental illness).

"Curing" is unimaginable to me right now.

I think that most people have a hard time coping. It is difficult to discern what is a mental illness and what is normal.