User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 33

  1. #11
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7W6 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    4,797

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Not really, apparently there are different proportions of types of dyslexia in Spanish/French as there are in English. Fascinating stuff.

    For what it's worth, the only reason I can remember where anything is is because I remember exactly how I put it where I put it, visually. It becomes very frustrating when the data in my brain is actually old data, from years ago, and the thing is not there, because I know I put it there, but I have no idea when that happened

    I'm not sure if i havn't explained myself correctly or if you are misinterpreting what i am saying. Or if i am just missing something.
    As far as i have seen, research wise, there is a notable lower incidence of dyslexia in Spain. The language is more correct phonetically comparitive to English, and the words are pronounced similarly to how they are written.
    I think there are some differences in Italian in pronounciation, although seemingly phonetically correct in writing. I have not really looked into Italian much but i do speak a little Spanish so am a bit more clued up as to how the language is constructed.
    I'm not sure if diagnostics (and if there is a lack there of) play a part.
    I also understand that countries that use symbols instead of characters (e.g China, Japan) rely on less syllables, one per character (or symbol), making it easier to find a direct match visually, and thus easier for the dyslexic to visually memorise.
    I have come across several articles like the one you posted and find them very interesting and useful in my own personal research.
    If i am missing something here please discuss
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  2. #12
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    You do know the difference between phonetic and surface dyslexia, right?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #13
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7W6 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    4,797

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    You do know the difference between phonetic and surface dyslexia, right?

    Oh i see, i was approaching it as a whole rather than under subtyping. I did miss what you were referring to. I also think it's possible for one to have two of the subtypes or all three in varying degrees. My son certainly has traits of all three. I'd be interested to know which (of the three main) subtypes, if they can be catorgorised in such a way, are more prevalent in which countries though. Do you have a link?
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  4. #14
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    Oh i see, i was approaching it as a whole rather than under subtyping. I did miss what you were referring to. I also think it's possible for one to have two of the subtypes or all three in varying degrees. My son certainly has traits of all three. I'd be interested to know which (of the three main) subtypes, if they can be catorgorised in such a way, are more prevalent in which countries though. Do you have a link?
    ScienceDirect - Journal of Experimental Child Psychology : Spanish developmental dyslexia: Prevalence, cognitive profile, and home literacy experiences

    Have at.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #15
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7W6 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    4,797

    Default

    Thanks for the link. I understand where you are coming from now and think it has validity, you certainly know more about subtyping than me. Maybe you could post a breakdown of subtyping and prevalance in this thread?

    As i said i was referring more in the general, and in the general rates of dyslexia are lower in phonetically (more) correct languages. However that dosn't mean i discount what you are stating. Infact it may be a good way of determining real rates of dyslexia as opposed to just diagnosed rates.

    Scientists Explain Rates of Dyslexia: Scientific American
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  6. #16
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    Well, it would be curious to look at languages that are even more different, like Hebrew, which has no indication on how to pronounce vowels, or Korean, which is constructed with characters that all have a certain sound but is put together differently depending on which characters are close to what (like ß only more extreme).
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  7. #17
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    esfp
    Enneagram
    7
    Posts
    1,452

    Default

    I have phonetic dyslexia and auditory processing disorder, neither of which were identified when I was in school. Before I started school, at the age of four, I had already taught myself to read. This was due to the fact that my parents read to me every day. My mom put her finger under the words and, gradually, the letters turned into words for me. I never went through the learn the alphabet stage or the recognize the sounds phase. I simply recognized entire words. That is the way that I still read.
    When I started in first grade, my teacher placed me in a fast reading group because I came to school as a reader. When she discovered that I could not do the phonics drills, she moved me to a middle reading group. Of course, I still couldn't do phonics drills nor did I see any benefit in doing them. I really didn't understand the point of them. Then I was moved to the slow reading group. It was very boring.
    That was when I learned that there was two kids of reading: fun reading that you do at home (fairy tales, folk tales, Dr. Seuss) and boring reading that you do at school (Dick and Jane, etc.).
    That was when I lost interest in school as a place where I would learn new things and satisfy my curiosity about the world. I began looking out the window and longing for something better that was out there, not in the classroom.
    The educational system did not do wonders for me.
    edit: I still cannot do phonics but I had no trouble at all in learning Spanish!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    One thing i find extreamly troubling as you have mentioned yourself is the focus on phonics programs in schools for children with dyslexia. They really do not help, infact they exacerbate the situation and add to the childs feeling of not fitting in, not being good enough and general confusion...as a mother of a dyslexic child when ever i hear educational reps talking about phonics programs i immedaitely feel like this




    EDIT: Realised after this may not be what you are asking, below i am just speaking of a way in which i believe dyslexics will learn in a highly effective way.

    Well i believe that when learning the alphabet initially, it should be done in a multisensory way. Through making the letters out of clay, one at a time until the whole alphabet is learned. The exact way to do this i won't expound on right now but the idea is to have a fixed visual image of each letter so that it can then be applied to seeing it in print but only once it is learned through touch, 3d sight, and visualisation.
    IMO, no reading alaphabet letters in print until they have first been learnt this way.
    That is just the beginning, thats is just the alphabet, we can move on to whole words, sentances and paragraphs later in a dyslexia friendly way and NOT in the conventional way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    You do know the difference between phonetic and surface dyslexia, right?
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  8. #18
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,487

    Default

    LOL I hardly made it through the very first post that I think this is right up there with the insane post of a few months ago talking about the gift that is dysleia.

    There is nothing, nothing at all that is good about having dyslexia. The "giftedness" that people assume is the benefit of dyslexia is not related to the condition, but is likely to be co-incidental.

    I would like to point out what I mean is that the dylsexic population can be as creative or non creative as the next person, they do not have an over compensation on being massively artistic. I'm talking the population not individual people. So many people seem to think that this is a middle class condition, which otherwise bright kids suffere from, I can give you total assurance that the kids in my year at school, a sample size of 300, 25 dyslexic/remedial kids of which were from deprived and not well educated etc, of which probably 80% were diagnosed with dyslexia, I think there was only about 4 more kids that were not in remedial education full time (ie they followed the normal curriculum).

    Of those c.20 kids, who were not the brightest sparks, about half had artitist ability, some had physical abilities, either in the way of agression or sport, but no underlying wonderfulness exsisted.

    I grew up as the youngest of 11 kids, of which 3 of us were fully dyslexic the oldest of which being the msot sever and receivign the least support from teh system. My mum was probably borderline. Since the 1980's about 2 or 3 more of my siblings claim to be dyslexic, which my mum would say was utter rubbish, but hey where there is a bandwagon everyone wants on.

    Dylseixa and autisim and alcohal abuse seem to run within generations. the cause and the effect is not clear by any respects, often this reads across many generations.

    Out of my siblings the 3 of us who are dyslexic, 2 of us are avide readers, I wanted to read as a kid, more than anythign I wanted what was in those books, the eldest is just wanting knowledge, the third of us, is a natrual networker, with the emotional intellegence of a giant, who can create networks out of thin air. He is a gifted artist. I could ahve been a professional potter (as in ceramics), but my ability to paint is affected by poor hand eye co-ordination at a detailed level. Like everything, if you spend 1300 hours (or however many is recommended by outliers), anyone can be professient in anything.

    The detail fo dylsexia is very different for different people, some kids can't speak, hence phonetic spelling is a dissaster - Baff being something one does in the tub, is an interesting take when the kid sis beign brought up saying that instead of bath.

    Dysgraphia, which I suffered from as well, I got taught to write on more than one occation, god help if the police ever try and diagnosed "who dun it" from my hand writng.

    I also make sequencing errors, and screw up the last three letters of the word.

    I have higher numeracy than most, including statistics and logical thinking, but bad at budgetting, amazin at budgetting other peoples money.

    I am brighter than the average bear, was facinated by cooking, and lots of different crafts etc (ENTP thing), langauges are not my thing, I think because I can't really hear the distinctions of sounds.

    I don't see words jumping on the page, but I do have bilateral brain hemespher function - ie I do maths and paint pictures. I do well visually.

    for those who are not dyslexic, PLEASE leave out what a wonderful bloody gift is it, its totalyl disrespectful to the sheer amount of energy it takes to get you through the day, the humilation of beign belitted by very ignorant people who intellectualyl just aren't up to much.

    If you have the creativitiy of a teaspoon then go off and learn how to be more creative, try readings ticky wisdom, or attend a trainign course by an innovations agency. look at the world differently, it really isn't a gift and it is a learned behaviour.

  9. #19
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7W6 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    4,797

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    LOL I hardly made it through the very first post that I think this is right up there with the insane post of a few months ago talking about the gift that is dysleia.
    It really might be conducive if you did read the post befor dismissing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    There is nothing, nothing at all that is good about having dyslexia. The "giftedness" that people assume is the benefit of dyslexia is not related to the condition, but is likely to be co-incidental.
    You have made it clear you feel this way yet much research states otherwise, including scientific research and research carried out by oxford university.

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    I would like to point out what I mean is that the dylsexic population can be as creative or non creative as the next person, they do not have an over compensation on being massively artistic. I'm talking the population not individual people. So many people seem to think that this is a middle class condition, which otherwise bright kids suffere from, I can give you total assurance that the kids in my year at school, a sample size of 300, 25 dyslexic/remedial kids of which were from deprived and not well educated etc, of which probably 80% were diagnosed with dyslexia, I think there was only about 4 more kids that were not in remedial education full time (ie they followed the normal curriculum).



    Of those c.20 kids, who were not the brightest sparks, about half had artitist ability, some had physical abilities, either in the way of agression or sport, but no underlying wonderfulness exsisted.
    Probably the kind of tests they did do would indicate that. Tests even now do not pick up a lot of giftedness because they are geared towards acedemia, which is not an area dyslexic individuals shine in. Again i would be happy to provide links but i just feel as if your mind is made up and you are not prepared to even read into it. I don't understand why you are so hell bent on making your argument that dyslexics are not inherently talented when you always state that you are.

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    I grew up as the youngest of 11 kids, of which 3 of us were fully dyslexic the oldest of which being the msot sever and receivign the least support from teh system. My mum was probably borderline. Since the 1980's about 2 or 3 more of my siblings claim to be dyslexic, which my mum would say was utter rubbish, but hey where there is a bandwagon everyone wants on.
    Wow, so on that premise, someone in your family must think there is actualy something good about being dyslexic. They must be wrong, oh and not dyslexic.

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Dylseixa and autisim and alcohal abuse seem to run within generations. the cause and the effect is not clear by any respects, often this reads across many generations.


    Out of my siblings the 3 of us who are dyslexic, 2 of us are avide readers, I wanted to read as a kid, more than anythign I wanted what was in those books, the eldest is just wanting knowledge, the third of us, is a natrual networker, with the emotional intellegence of a giant, who can create networks out of thin air. He is a gifted artist. I could ahve been a professional potter (as in ceramics), but my ability to paint is affected by poor hand eye co-ordination at a detailed level. Like everything, if you spend 1300 hours (or however many is recommended by outliers), anyone can be professient in anything.
    So two of the three dyslexic siblings are gifted by your own admission. Can you see the contradiction?
    And no not anyone can be proficient in anything, you just stated you can't be proficient in pottery, again contradiciton.

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    The detail fo dylsexia is very different for different people, some kids can't speak, hence phonetic spelling is a dissaster - Baff being something one does in the tub, is an interesting take when the kid sis beign brought up saying that instead of bath.
    Yes it is different. Everyone has individual strengths and weaknesses. I have never heard of someone with dyslexia who couldn't speak though, difficulties with language output yes, but not unable to speak at all due to dyslexia.
    I'm pretty sure nearly all, if not all, dyslexic individuals have great difficulty with phonics.

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Dysgraphia, which I suffered from as well, I got taught to write on more than one occation, god help if the police ever try and diagnosed "who dun it" from my hand writng.

    I also make sequencing errors, and screw up the last three letters of the word.
    These are all very common difficulties amoung individuals with dyslexia.

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    I have higher numeracy than most, including statistics and logical thinking, but bad at budgetting, amazin at budgetting other peoples money.

    I am brighter than the average bear, was facinated by cooking, and lots of different crafts etc (ENTP thing), langauges are not my thing, I think because I can't really hear the distinctions of sounds.

    I don't see words jumping on the page, but I do have bilateral brain hemespher function - ie I do maths and paint pictures. I do well visually.
    These are all common strengths of individuals with dyslexia.

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    for those who are not dyslexic, PLEASE leave out what a wonderful bloody gift is it, its totalyl disrespectful to the sheer amount of energy it takes to get you through the day, the humilation of beign belitted by very ignorant people who intellectualyl just aren't up to much.
    I'm presuming this is aimed at me because i am the only poster in this thread who is not dyslexic.
    However, i have a lot of dyslexia in my family so it would be unfair to say i am not involved or affected by dyslexia.

    I'd also like to point out that this thread is about an alternative perspective, it is not about "what a wonderful bloody gift it is".
    If you want to rant at me personally as a follow on from the thread i started about giftedness and dyslexia, i suggest you go back to that thread. Using this thread as a venting ground is pretty pathetic.

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    If you have the creativitiy of a teaspoon then go off and learn how to be more creative, try readings ticky wisdom, or attend a trainign course by an innovations agency. look at the world differently, it really isn't a gift and it is a learned behaviour.
    Thanks for your constructive imput, much appreciated.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  10. #20
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7W6 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    4,797

    Default

    I just found some information plus an image (searched for hours for this!) that i thought would be a good explanation of how the dyslexic mind, for a large percentage of dyslexic individuals, thinks differently to the neurotypical one.
    For the sake of this article we will assume that the dyslexic mind is a visual spatial thinker. Alternatively we can assume most dyslexic individuals use visual spatial thinking over auditory sequential thinking.

    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

Similar Threads

  1. [ENFP] LL's observations on my husband, who is an INTP, from an ENFP perspective
    By Little Linguist in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 63
    Last Post: 06-14-2012, 09:28 AM
  2. An alternative to capatilist profit based Economy
    By bluemountaintree in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 04-22-2012, 06:02 PM
  3. May I suggest an Alternative Solution?
    By Alternative Solution in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 05-31-2010, 11:02 PM
  4. [NF] Living Fe from an Fi perspective
    By sculpting in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-09-2009, 07:43 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO