The Opposite of Truth

[Wonkavision]

Morgan Le Fay--

Look, your whole premise is ridiculous, so whatever amount of logic you apply to it, and no matter how much it makes sense in your head, it's going to come up FAIL in ACTUAL LIFE.

If you think people disagree with your idea because they're not intelligent enough to grasp it, or because they over-identify with their cognitive functions, or because they're whiny Feelers, or because you're just a genius who's too far ahead of your time, or whatever ridiculous bullshit you MAY want to delude yourself with---then go for it.

You FAILED the moment you started this thread, and NO, I will not waste my precious time pointing out why.

 

[Poki]

Morgan Le Fay--

Look, your whole premise is ridiculous, so whatever amount of logic you apply to it, and no matter how much it makes sense in your head, it's going to come up FAIL in ACTUAL LIFE.

If you think people disagree with your idea because they're not intelligent enough to grasp it, or because they over-identify with their cognitive functions, or because they're whiny Feelers, or because you're just a genius who's too far ahead of your time, or whatever ridiculous bullshit you MAY want to delude yourself with---then go for it.

You FAILED the moment you started this thread, and NO, I will not waste my precious time pointing out why.

The "FAIL" is when MLF became opinionated in some areas instead of remaining open in a Ti way. Thats when the goal is held above the understanding. Its actually very obvious to me when I try to process this internally. This is where logic failed.

 

[MacGuffin]

WTF is everyone all worked up about?

 

[Wonkavision]

WTF is everyone all worked up about?

As far as I can see, I'm the only one getting worked up.

And I'm well aware of the danger of getting worked up.

I know my limits, and I know when to quit, so there won't be any trouble here, Officer.

 

[Amargith]

Would it follow that Fi truth consists of logically consistent values and Fe truth of empirically observed and proven ones?

I would like to explore that more, yes. That sounds right to me
Also, when I saw the OP, my first thought was that Ti and Fi both in their own way seek to find Truths, as well as not seeing how Te and Fe consequently would consist of lying..just that they don't particularly focus on the Truth, rather than Getting the Job Done.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

Ti is the "truth function"? Fe is the "lying function"?

And now Fi is a "lying function" too???

I can't believe anyone is taking this seriously!


Ridiculous.

Every function can lie, because people with those functions lie. It's the same lie with different intent. To say otherwise is simply delusional.

 

[Ginkgo]

Every function can lie, because people with those functions lie. It's the same lie with different intent. To say otherwise is simply delusional.

People lie. Functions do not.

 

[Wonkavision]

People lie. Functions do not.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

What do people use to lie?

 

[rav3n]

People lie. Functions do not.

Succintly apt!

 

[Ginkgo]

What do people use to lie?

Their tongues.

 

[Salomé]

Functions don't lie, people do.

People lie. Functions do not.

LOL.

Seems we haven't made much progress...

 

[Moiety]

I haven't read the thread but I've thought of something similar. Fe seeks harmony. Fe acts upon it's environment and rearranges it to create harmony. It knocks on your door and gives you a welcome to the neighborhood and brings a (fake.....loool jk :B) cake with it.

It's a lot more "ends justify the means" than any introverted judging function, much like Te.

Still the truth is subjective and clouded by perception. And also by how you judge the world. And Fe is a judging function.

 

[Salomé]

Morgan Le Fay--

You FAILED the moment you started this thread, and NO, I will not waste my precious time pointing out why.

Okay. Good to know.

WTF is everyone all worked up about?

Reading between the lines, there was a bit of a slanging match on Vent inspired by my thread.

(also, you know, Fs )

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

Their tongues.

Clever, but incomplete.

I haven't read the thread but I've thought of something similar. Fe seeks harmony. Fe acts upon it's environment and rearranges it to create harmony. It knocks on your door and gives you a welcome to the neighborhood and brings a (fake.....loool jk :B) cake with it.

It's a lot more "ends justify the means" than any introverted judging function, much like Te.

Still the truth is subjective and clouded by perception. And also by how you judge the world. And Fe is a judging function.

Hm, then I would think we should try and find the false judgements that each function can make to see where the truth lies (ha!).

 

[Ginkgo]

Clever, but incomplete.

There are a plethora of things people use to lie. In fact, all that is thought of can be used to lie. Pretty extensive, huh?

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

Since it is so extensive it can include my possibility too!

 

[PeaceBaby]

Lying = telling someone something you know to be untrue, with the intent to deceive.

A lie is a deliberate untruth. As you say, a lie itself is not necessarily immoral. A lie can contribute to what constitutes the greater good, thus the act of lying itself is not morally illogical either. A lie just is.

It follows that there is also nothing intrinsically good about telling the truth. The fact that most of us don’t want to be deceived, makes us call lying “immoral”.

It's the intent of the lie, the reason for the lie, that makes lying a potentially immoral act.

But, since the word lying itself has a negative connotation, now the emotional tone of the thread is indeed caught up in that provocative dynamic, making people feel angry and confrontational.

Perhaps saying that if Ti is truth, Fe untruth would have been a better oppositional pair to argue from, less charged with emotion? Get you more of the result you are looking for? Even as I type that though, I don't like how it looks either.

I would say that each function has its own truth and blind-spot, which is why in reality none of them are expressed in isolation of each other, and why we weigh pros and cons based on our own cognitive vantage points.

I don't think it's possible to look at a pure distillation of each function IRL since they are blended together so homogeneously.

 

[Ginkgo]

Since it is so extensive it can include my possibility too!

Ok, but not in the same sense. Using functions to lie would mean that you are lying about functional theory.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

No, it would prove that the theory existed because you used the functions in the theory to lie.