The Opposite of Truth

[Poki]

I would like to explore that more, yes. That sounds right to me
Also, when I saw the OP, my first thought was that Ti and Fi both in their own way seek to find Truths, as well as not seeing how Te and Fe consequently would consist of lying..just that they don't particularly focus on the Truth, rather than Getting the Job Done.

That sounds about right to me.

So Ti truth would be about feeling consistancy. Which seems to match up even with what I see in an Fe dom(not as default, but the value/truth portion is still very present).

 

[Ginkgo]

No, it would prove that the theory existed because you used the functions in the theory to lie.

The theory exists, but that doesn't prove that the theory exists.

A person lying only proves itself, observably.

If lying proves functional theory, then we would have had functional theory the first time someone ever told a lie.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

Using functions to lie would mean that you are lying about functional theory.

This is what I was going off of when making my statement. How can you use something if it doesn't exist? Just because someone thought of something doesn't mean it didn't already exist. So, technically this theory has always existed, but the idea itself had never been manifested through words.

 

[Ginkgo]

This is what I was going off of when making my statement. How can you use something if it doesn't exist? Just because someone thought of something doesn't mean it didn't already exist. So, technically this theory has always existed, but the idea itself had never been manifested through words.

I'm confused.

 

[Salomé]

A lie is a deliberate untruth. As you say, a lie itself is not necessarily immoral. A lie can contribute to what constitutes the greater good, thus the act of lying itself is not morally illogical either. A lie just is.



It's the intent of the lie, the reason for the lie, that makes lying a potentially immoral act.

But, since the word lying itself has a negative connotation, now the emotional tone of the thread is indeed caught up in that provocative dynamic, making people feel angry and confrontational.

Perhaps saying that if Ti is truth, Fe untruth would have been a better oppositional pair to argue from, less charged with emotion? Get you more of the result you are looking for? Even as I type that though, I don't like how it looks either.

Yup. It's interesting, eh? I don't really set out with a result in mind...I just see where it leads.

I would say that each function has its own truth and blind-spot, which is why in reality none of them are expressed in isolation of each other, and why we weigh pros and cons based on our own cognitive vantage points.

I don't think it's possible to look at a pure distillation of each function IRL since they are blended together so homogeneously.

Analysis requires that we identify what a function is and is not, what it does or does not do. Otherwise why have a theory of functions/types at all?

I'm confused.

Then stop being deliberately obtuse.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

You had said that using functions to lie would mean that the function theory was a lie. This doesn't make sense, because in order to use them they'd have to exist.

 

[Ginkgo]

You had said that using functions to lie would mean that the function theory was a lie. This doesn't make sense, because in order to use them they'd have to exist.

NO! That's not what I said. Lying about functional theory =/= Functional theory is a lie. You could lie about Lake Loch Ness, but that doesn't mean that Lake Loch Ness is either a lie or untrue.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

NO! That's not what I said. Lying about functional theory =/= Functional theory is a lie. You could lie about Lake Loch Ness, but that doesn't mean that Lake Loch Ness is either a lie or untrue.

It is, because I quoted it a post earlier, with no altercations other than eliminating the sentence before it.

This is true, but has no bearing on the point we were just making.You are right as well because we don't know whether it exists or not, therefore it cannot be a lie, or a truth.

P.S. Actually it would if it doesn't exist and you were saying it did.

P.S.S. I see the miscommunication. You used the word 'about'. You were just repeating yourself from earlier instead of making a new point.

 

[Salomé]

Lake Loch Ness is either a lie or untrue.

LOL

Loch=Lake

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

I've gotta go to work now. Try not to take this point too seriously. I'm just thinking here.

 

[Ginkgo]

Then stop being deliberately obtuse.

There are times when I am deliberately obtuse, but not now. Coming from you, that statement couldn't be anymore rich.

 

[MacGuffin]

A lie is a deliberate untruth. As you say, a lie itself is not necessarily immoral. A lie can contribute to what constitutes the greater good, thus the act of lying itself is not morally illogical either. A lie just is.

I once tried to make this argument, only to be told how WRONG I was. Fuckin' INTPs.

 

[Salomé]

I once tried to make this argument, only to be told how WRONG I was. Fuckin' INTPs.

Do you mean to say you once failed to make this argument?
Yeah, I think I remember that.

Coming from you, that statement couldn't be anymore rich.

Thank you.

 

[MacGuffin]

Do you mean to say you once failed to make this argument?
Yeah, I think I remember that.

Yeah, INTPs can be really too anal and narrow-minded to wrap their brains around repeated explanations!

 

[PeaceBaby]

^ Ooooh let's start that argument then, this one is getting boring.

 

[Salomé]

^Hey! Start your own arguments!

Yeah, INTPs can be really too anal and narrow-minded to wrap their brains around repeated explanations!

I thought that was INTJs?

 

[Amargith]

Nope, INTJs hate repetition even more than they love being anal about stuff

 

[MacGuffin]

I thought that was INTJs?

INTPs do a good impression sometimes.

 

[Salomé]

INTPs do a good impression sometimes.

Are you actually going to make a worthwhile contribution to this thread or are you just going to keep indirectly dissing me? 'Cos you're a bit late to that party.

 

[Ginkgo]

Are you actually going to make a worthwhile contribution to this thread or are you just going to keep indirectly dissing me? 'Cos you're a bit late to that party.

His name suggests that he is a plot device and nothing more.