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  1. #21
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    "Every moment that's ever been, or ever will be, is gone the instant it's begun. So, life is loss. Happiness is to learn to love the moment more than you mourn the loss."

    -Emily

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Is it just me, or does this one question not seem to fit in with the rest of the "signature strengths" questions?

    I mean, this one question seems so one dimensional in that it leads to defining who you are by one single strength alone. In that sense it just doesn't seem like something you should ask yourself that question.

    I don't think one strength defines me, I'd like to think I have multiple strengths that define the "real me".

    Maybe it's just me *shrugs*
    Well, there should be more than one strength. The test offers 5 candidates, but there are 24 to choose from.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Nobody ever wants to feel sad, upset, disappointed, dejected or any of the other various negative human emotions, but tough tits! Due to life's ever changing and relatively unpredictable nature, it makes perfect sense that one's emotions should reflect, and be in response to, one's current experience.

    All emotions are authentic, as opposed to one's thoughts, and or actions which may be purposefully or subconsciously inauthentic.

    Emotions are inherently tempestuous and capricious, as they are instantaneous reactions to current circumstances. To ever expect to feel one emotion permanently, or even consistently is downright unrealistic and foolish.

    Just like order needs chaos, and silence needs noise, happiness needs sadness in order to be defined as being the absence of its opposite.
    I don't think that never feeling sad is what he meant by this either. Nobody I know, has the goal of never feeling sad. I think, it is more a sense of deep contentment despite the losses. A transcendent feeling of being who you were meant to be, of not feeling stifled. In a sense, I think an authentically happy person would feel the lows more fully and the highs more fully too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    "Every moment that's ever been, or ever will be, is gone the instant it's begun. So, life is loss. Happiness is to learn to love the moment more than you mourn the loss."

    -Emily
    Well, I suppose that is the idea. But it is easier for some than others.

    Some people are less allowed to take the moments as they would naturally. It is rather hard to enjoy a moment in which you are cajoled to be different from yourself or perish.

    Would a fish out of water enjoy the moments, or fight to try to get back in the water? Not to say anything about the futility of the struggle. But it is like that.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  3. #23
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Well, I suppose that is the idea. But it is easier for some than others.

    Some people are less allowed to take the moments as they would naturally. It is rather hard to enjoy a moment in which you are cajoled to be different from yourself or perish.

    Would a fish out of water enjoy the moments, or fight to try to get back in the water? Not to say anything about the futility of the struggle. But it is like that.
    Is that really true of everybody's situation?

    It seems, far more often, a matter of perspective. We do not describe the world we see, we see the world we describe.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    Is that really true of everybody's situation?
    No. But it is true for many. Most people want others to be like themselves. Those that are different are often cut-off from the social support that any human being needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    It seems, far more often, a matter of perspective. We do not describe the world we see, we see the world we describe.
    Perhaps. But that's a tricky game. If we try to describe what we want to see (and confuse it for what we are actually seeing), we may miss what we need to see.

    Put more simply, I prefer not to fool myself.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  5. #25
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    Is that really true of everybody's situation?

    It seems, far more often, a matter of perspective. We do not describe the world we see, we see the world we describe.
    I think that we *try* to describe the world we see, but that our descriptions often fall short of our actual perceptions. It is true that our descriptions are indicative of how we might see the world, or what we might choose to focus on, but in no way do they encapsulate or define the world in which we live in and perceive.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    I think that we *try* to describe the world we see, but that our descriptions often fall short of our actual perceptions. It is true that our descriptions are indicative of how we might see the world, or what we might choose to focus on, but in no way do they encapsulate or define the world in which we live in and perceive.
    I believe this to be true. I think intentionally trying to fool ourselves makes the problem worse.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  7. #27
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I tried to believe that for a little while. But what is the difference between that an apathy or resignation?

    Some people are born with a drive to change things. I've found that trying to suppress it hurts more than it helps (significantly more).
    I guess the difference is motivation. Resignation implies you wanted something better and let go of it out of defeat. If you can accept things as they are, yet seek something better, you can be happy. Not necessarily being an optimist, so much as learning to see even bad situations have some good in them, and vice-versa. Learning to embrace a kind of balance, I guess.

    I really think I failed to describe what I was talking about adequately, but I hope I explained at least part of it well enough.

  8. #28
    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post

    All emotions are authentic, as opposed to one's thoughts, and or actions which may be purposefully or subconsciously inauthentic.

    Emotions are inherently tempestuous and capricious, as they are instantaneous reactions to current circumstances. To ever expect to feel one emotion permanently, or even consistently is downright unrealistic and foolish.
    I disagree on this. It is true that most emotions come to us in an uncotrolled, call it spontaneous, way. However, I really believe we can think ourselves into emotions and emotional states. Thus we can sustain sadness when we start seeing it as part of our identity. And just the other way around as well. Isn't this what behaviourism can do?
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

  9. #29
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    i think you are missing my point. yes, the world exists as it is, regardless of how you see it or feel about it... full of aspects both negative and positive. this we cannot change... what we can change, though, is our understanding (which alters our actions) and focus (which alters our perspective)

    I see two ends of a spectrum... one is fear, the other is love... you can either be driven by the former or pursue the latter. this isn't lying to yourself, it's smart thinking. anyone who has ridden a motorcycle will be familiar with the concept of target fixation... what you look at is where you're going to end up going. if you look for good opportunity in everything, then it only follows that you will get the best results possible.

    if are only ever driven by fear, although you may manage to survive, you will never be happy--fear is a beast you will never escape. the most basic fears-inadequacy and deficiency-can be easily identified in today's society. greed, for one, is a simple enough example of this... the poorest see the well-off as rich, the well-off see the millionaires as rich, the millionaires see the billionaires as rich... many will never think that they have enough. this is because they are trying to find security and happiness by feeding a fear of not having enough. this is, of course, completely irrational... a leftover, primal instinct that isn't useful in modern society. this is apparent from studies that show the increase in happiness in correlation to income is marginal except in cases of extreme poverty (where the instinct to have enough to survive is legitimate)

    on the other hand, we can find happiness by pursuing love... both inward and outwardly. as mentioned earlier, i see two halves to this, the first being understanding, how we see inwardly and determine how to act and respond... the second being our focus on the world around us and how we see outwardly, which determines our perspective. i shall begin with the former... let's say someone does something that would probably make you angry. you could, of course, become angry and blame them for what they've done, or... you could realize that blame is admitting that someone else has control of your feelings and choose to respond differently. the world is what it is, what you need to determine is how you respond to it. i believe with this understanding, we can strive to live a healthy lifestyle (physically and emotionally) and thus learn to love ourselves... strive to find purpose in our lives and thus learn to love our existence... strive to create solid relationships with others and thus learn to love the people around us. as for the second half, it's simply a matter of focusing on and appreciating all of the positive aspects of the world and the people who inhabit it... loving every moment more than you mourn its loss.

    it is no surprise that fear is centralized in the most primitive part of the human brain, nor that the things that separate humans from animals like art, music, and other aspects of culture, complex communication, etc. incite activity in the upper, more developed part of the brain. the biggest difference, in my opinion, is that while the purpose of the reptilian brain is survival, the higher mind is what allows us to thrive


    it's important to ask yourself... "am i doing this, or looking at something a certain way because i feel like i need to in order to survive?" the bottom line is... in the grand scheme, you're probably going to be just fine. the only question left is whether or not you're going pursue happiness once you realize that.



    considering my S-ness, that much writing should tide me over for at least a couple of weeks.

  10. #30
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mippus View Post
    I disagree on this. It is true that most emotions come to us in an uncotrolled, call it spontaneous, way. However, I really believe we can think ourselves into emotions and emotional states. Thus we can sustain sadness when we start seeing it as part of our identity. And just the other way around as well. Isn't this what behaviourism can do?
    Ah, you bring up an excellent point. I find there to be a distinction between an emotion by itself, and an emotionally-infused, sustained mood. The former being derived instantaneously, without any foresight, and the latter being more of a result of a person's behavioral tendencies to either dwell on a given emotional state, or ignore, or acknowledge and get over it. I believe that cognitive behavioral therapy helps one control their moods by teaching them what and why they feel the things they do.

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