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  1. #11
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I suppose the degree of authenticity of your hapiness depends on the authenticity of your knowledge that your traits lead to good things in your life.
    Right And if you can simply teach convince yourself or are set to believe that you do good...? Hard to believe that is authentic (but by the same argument, what could possibly be authentic?) I'd think the only authentic is if you are 'naturally' happy, chemically. But aren't you just creating that by being happy anyway? What if you inject yourself with chemicals to make yourself happy? Any difference.

    So I dunno. I don't really understand happiness, so I see it all from a distance. I'm not even sure it's positive (up to the point where happiness for happiness sake seems like taking drugs, but unhappiness to the point of depression/motivation collapse is negative).

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mippus View Post
    True, wrote some interesting things on optimism as well. However: a definition such as the one presented here seems like a mere slogan to me...
    Yes you're right.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    You can take a look at Maverick to see it - he fully believes he does good and he strikes me as being happy. I'd go as far as saying he is the best example I know of (I know another ENTJ that does this...) of someone who managed to create their own happiness through this viewpoint/mechanism.

    Maverick

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by mippus View Post
    True, wrote some interesting things on optimism as well. However: a definition such as the one presented here seems like a mere slogan to me...
    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Right And if you can simply teach convince yourself or are set to believe that you do good...? Hard to believe that is authentic (but by the same argument, what could possibly be authentic?) I'd think the only authentic is if you are 'naturally' happy, chemically. But aren't you just creating that by being happy anyway? What if you inject yourself with chemicals to make yourself happy? Any difference.
    These two comments lead me to elaborate a bit. The OP was a very terse paraphrase of my understanding of the book Authentic Hapiness.

    I spead read this book one night (may go back through more carefully if I find it worthwhile).

    IMO, the idea is that each of us has "signature strengths" that can be nurtured/honed to produce (nearly) universaly acknowledged virtues in ourselves. These virtues, in turn, produce good results that we would know to come about because our own natures (intead of by luck, etc.)

    Hopefully, that is a bit more fleshed out.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  4. #14
    Large Member Ender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    You can train yourself to think this way/have it pointed out to you. I'm just not sure you could call it "authentic", if there is such a thing, but it does work

    You can take a look at Maverick to see it - he fully believes he does good and he strikes me as being happy. I'd go as far as saying he is the best example I know of (I know another ENTJ that does this...) of someone who managed to create their own happiness through this viewpoint/mechanism.

    Maverick
    It's all subjective tho isn't it? We all view things in our own unique way. The way I's and E's view things such as friendship for example.. Bah who knows, to be honest right now I got more pressing matters to think about then what is or isn't authentic happiness.

    For me right now, happiness takes a back seat to trying to figure out how to survive the next few months of uncertainty. Hence why I said I'd have to take more then 10minutes thinking about it. I'll have to get back to you on this in a few months time.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    I don't want it, I just need it, to breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.

    Never take life to seriously.. No one gets out alive in the end anyway.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    It's all subjective tho isn't it? We all view things in our own unique way. The way I's and E's view things such as friendship for example.. Bah who knows, to be honest right now I got more pressing matters to think about then what is or isn't authentic happiness.

    For me right now, happiness takes a back seat to trying to figure out how to survive the next few months of uncertainty. Hence why I said I'd have to take more then 10minutes thinking about it. I'll have to get back to you on this in a few months time.
    Perhaps our own busy-ness leads to less happiness?

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  6. #16
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Authentic happiness, according to Martin Seligman, comes from knowing that one's own traits leads to good things in one's life.

    What do you guys think of that idea?
    It could be true. But my belief is that it's learning to be content with how things are, and taking time out to do the things that are important to you personally rather than just pushing ahead all the time to get by, thinking that's what matters. It's easier said than done.

    What do you think?

  7. #17

    Default Pleasures vs. Gratifications

    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    It could be true. But my belief is that it's learning to be content with how things are, and taking time out to do the things that are important to you personally rather than just pushing ahead all the time to get by, thinking that's what matters. It's easier said than done.

    What do you think?
    I tried to believe that for a little while. But what is the difference between that an apathy or resignation?

    Some people are born with a drive to change things. I've found that trying to suppress it hurts more than it helps (significantly more).

    Here are some quotes from the Authentic Happiness book that may clarify things:

    In ordinary English, we do not distinguish between the gratifications and the pleasures. This is truly a shame, because it muddles together two different classes of the best things in life, and it deceives us into thinking they can each be had in the same way. We casually say that we like caviar, a back rub, or the sound of rain on a tin roof (all pleasures) as well as saying we like playing volleyball, reading Dylan Thomas, and helping the homeless (all gratifications)
    When I press people about the existence of that underlying postive emotion, I find one underneath the pleasures: great food, a back rub, perfume, a hot shower all produce the raw feels of pleasure I mentioned at the beginning of this chapter. In contrast, when I press people about positive of pleasure we allegedly feel when serving coffee to the homeless, or reading Andrea Barret, or playing bridge or rock climbing, it is quite elusive.

    What would happen if my entire life were made up of [] easy pleasures, never calling on my strengths, never presenting challenges? Such a life sets one up for depression. The strengths and virtues may wither during a life of taking shortcuts rather than choosing a life made full through pursuit of gratifications.
    Pleasure is a powerful source of motivation, but it does not produce change; it is a conservative force that makes us want to satisfy existing needs, achieve comfort and relaxation...Enjoyment[gratification] on the other hand is not always pleasant, and it can be utterly stressful at times. A mountain climber may be close to freezing, utterly exhausted, in danger of falling into a bottomless crevasse, yet he wouldn't want to be anywhere else. Sipping a cocktail under a palm tree at the edge of the turquoise ocean is nice, but it just doesn't compare to the exhilaration he feels on that freezing ridge.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  8. #18

    Default Signature Strenghts

    For further clarifications about signature strengths, here is a quote from the book for questions to ask yourself after taking the test to identify strengths.

    The idea is to see if the strengths identified by the test pass these criteria:

    • A sense of ownership and authenticity ("This is the real me")
    • A feeling of excitement while displaying it, particularly at first
    • A rapid learning curve as the strength is first practiced
    • continuous learning of new ways to enact the strength
    • A sense of yearning to find ways to use it
    • A feeling of inevitability in using the strength ("Try and stop me")
    • Invigoration rather than exhaustion while using the strength
    • The creation and pursuit projects that revolve around it
    • Joy, zest, enthusiasm, even ecstasy while using it

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  9. #19
    Large Member Ender's Avatar
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    A sense of ownership and authenticity ("This is the real me")
    Is it just me, or does this one question not seem to fit in with the rest of the "signature strengths" questions?

    I mean, this one question seems so one dimensional in that it leads to defining who you are by one single strength alone. In that sense it just doesn't seem like something you should ask yourself that question.

    I don't think one strength defines me, I'd like to think I have multiple strengths that define the "real me".

    Maybe it's just me *shrugs*
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    I don't want it, I just need it, to breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.

    Never take life to seriously.. No one gets out alive in the end anyway.

  10. #20
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Nobody ever wants to feel sad, upset, disappointed, dejected or any of the other various negative human emotions, but tough tits! Due to life's ever changing and relatively unpredictable nature, it makes perfect sense that one's emotions should reflect, and be in response to, one's current experience.

    All emotions are authentic, as opposed to one's thoughts, and or actions which may be purposefully or subconsciously inauthentic.

    Emotions are inherently tempestuous and capricious, as they are instantaneous reactions to current circumstances. To ever expect to feel one emotion permanently, or even consistently is downright unrealistic and foolish.

    Just like order needs chaos, and silence needs noise, happiness needs sadness in order to be defined as being the absence of its opposite.

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