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    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Default Traits of Females who are abandoned by/lose their father at a young age

    Anybody got any theories on this? Any MBTI/enneagram typing correlation?

    My experience is that as adult they either get clingy or the "apparent" opposite. I don't know about MBTI type but as far as enegram seem often to fall into the enegram "head types" 5-6-7
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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I think it depends on type as well as the prior relationships with mother, father, other authority/parental role figures, and even just other people in the environment (including siblings).

    In other words, the response is typically individual, unless we are going to be VERY broad in our probable outcomes.

    Even the age matters, and since cognitive abilities change rapidly in the younger years, I think there is a difference between a two year old losing a father and a five year old... not to mention how much more time there was for an adult figure to become part of that child's world and now the world is being altered drastically.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think it depends on type as well as the prior relationships with mother, father, other authority/parental role figures, and even just other people in the environment (including siblings).

    In other words, the response is typically individual, unless we are going to be VERY broad in our probable outcomes.
    Yeah lets be VERY broad about these broads ;-). Feel free to give various examples

    I.e. Feeling types, those who had rough experiences with the remaining parent (i.e. mother), those who had a cool step parent vs. those with abusive step parent and where or if any of these subtypes share any similarities...
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

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    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    Yeah lets be VERY broad about these broads ;-). Feel free to give various examples

    I.e. Feeling types, those who had rough experiences with the remaining parent (i.e. mother), those who had a cool step parent vs. those with abusive step parent and where or if any of these subtypes share any similarities...
    God, you are soooo creepy.

    If you're interested in theory buy the Riso-Hudson Enneagram book. The thesis is that each of the 9 types has a different attachment profile (to primary care-givers) - so your Thinking Triad theory isn't consistent with that. I can't remember the details and can't be bothered to find them for you. Especially if you plan to use it as part of your PUA arsenal.
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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Oh, yeah... attachment theory -- the theory in general is helpful even without enneagram or MBTI conversation.

    The stuff in Enneagram is based on Karen Horney's work but also is very similar to what is in formal object relations/attachment theory. We've got:
    Moving towards (placate): 2, 6, 7
    Moving away (detach): 4, 5, 9
    Moving against (antagonistic): 1, 3, 8

    As Morgan says, this isn't a matter of the heart-head-gut triad, it's the "movement style" triad instead.

    Directional Theory
    Interesting page here, which shows short term goals (the numbers I gave above) with supposed long-term hidden motives.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    God, you are soooo creepy.

    If you're interested in theory buy the Riso-Hudson Enneagram book. The thesis is that each of the 9 types has a different attachment profile (to primary care-givers) - so your Thinking Triad theory isn't consistent with that.
    They never called Sigmund Freud creepy...strike that I guess they did.

    Now that you mention it there is a 9 vibe I get from many of them too. Several 2s too so I might be off on my head trip. Definitely seem to be a majority of 7s (which gave me the Thinking Triad theory).

    This point in Risos/Hudsons "The Wisdom of the Enneagram" seems to strike a cord as far as 7s relationship with the remaining parent. "The Seven's childhood is flavored by a largely unconscious feeling of disconnection from the nurturing figure (often, but not always the biological mother)....

    [spamtar side note there is a consensus that often the single mother nurturing role becomes side-tract with the new duel masculine duty as disciplinarian/physical (as opposed to emotional) provider.]

    ...Genearally speaking, Sevens are sensitive to a very deep frustration resulting from feelings of being cut off from maternal nurturing at an early age, as if they had been taken away from the breast too soon (which may have literally been true in some cases). In response , young Sevens unconsciously "decided" to nurture themselves"

    Now this isn't exactly on point but it raises ideas of how it might be when there is a disconnect from the father (as opposed to or in addition the mother) and might tweak the personality development and lead to common psychological patters/profiles.

    Feel free to throw in your own wacky theories or ridicule others...
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

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    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Oh, yeah... attachment theory -- the theory in general is helpful even without enneagram or MBTI conversation.

    The stuff in Enneagram is based on Karen Horney's work but also is very similar to what is in formal object relations/attachment theory. We've got:
    Moving towards (placate): 2, 6, 7
    Moving away (detach): 4, 5, 9
    Moving against (antagonistic): 1, 3, 8

    As Morgan says, this isn't a matter of the heart-head-gut triad, it's the "movement style" triad instead..
    Clever...me likee
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

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    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Directional Theory
    Interesting page here, which shows short term goals (the numbers I gave above) with supposed long-term hidden motives.
    That was interesting. I haven't seen this bi-directional nature of attachment theory explored before... It does make quite a lot of sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    They never called Sigmund Freud creepy...strike that I guess they did.
    Webster's entry for Creepy: "See Freud."

    Now this isn't exactly on point but it raises ideas of how it might be when there is a disconnect from the father (as opposed to or in addition the mother) and might tweak the personality development and lead to common psychological patters/profiles.
    Well, I think it's going to be even more confusing in western culture, since while gender stereotypes still exist, the roles of both parents have been becoming more egalitarian with the ability of women to work full-time and the father to stay home, or whatever other arrangement you can imagine.

    IOW, the outcome might or might not be just gender-related (since a girl might still see her mom as the model and her father as animus, for example); it will also be role-based (i.e., the nurturer vs the provider, or something like that).

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    That was interesting. I haven't seen this bi-directional nature of attachment theory explored before... It does make quite a lot of sense.
    I hadn't seen it either, but as soon as I skimmed it, I mentally bookmarked it for further examination. There was some great sense there about underlying inclinations, including Two's and Five's ultimately wanting control.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Well, I think it's going to be even more confusing in western culture, since while gender stereotypes still exist, the roles of both parents have been becoming more egalitarian with the ability of women to work full-time and the father to stay home, or whatever other arrangement you can imagine.

    IOW, the outcome might or might not be just gender-related (since a girl might still see her mom as the model and her father as animus, for example); it will also be role-based (i.e., the nurturer vs the provider, or something like that).
    Yes I could see how the environment/culture could have a impact or lessening of impact (i.e. Little Debbie having "two Daddies" or "two Mommies" would likely be less disruptive in San Francisco than Tupelo, Mississippi. But perhaps there is also a genetic element hardwired into the kids head...? A duel nature/nurture element I suspect and differing effects on the impact of the male child than the girl regardless of neighborhood/environment.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

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