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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by tovlo View Post
    Though if ever I do hear "idiot" muttered quietly from his lips, perhaps now I'll have the perspective to understand.
    My wife actually picked that up from TV. On "Everybody Loves Raymond," the wife Deborah used to toss a scornful "Idiot!" at Ray. So my wife would toss an "Idiot!" at me right about the time when her anger was lifting, both as a joke and as a last blast of real irritation and exasperation. I would act mortally wounded, and my wife would start laughing. So it wasn't as bad as it sounds.

    But I tell my wife to feel free to get good and angry at me when she wants. That's better than bottling it up. I know she can really get fuming at times (like any good INFP). So the quicker she gets angry, the quicker she gets over it and we get back to the good times. Emotions aren't a problem for us. Get 'em out there in the open, and we'll work through them one way or the other.

    But it's good to hear that you and your special INFP are on the same wavelength. You two do what's best for you.

  2. #52
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tovlo View Post
    Is the INFJ the first and last one? It sounds right, though I'm not very familiar really with ENTP's.
    You've got that right...

    INFJ: "I wonder what will happen if... "
    ENTP: "Let's try it! And while we're at it... "
    INFJ: "No no no! That'll..."

    It's usually what happens when I mumble something to myself under my breath and was overheard.

    Your "no no no!" left me laughing, because it's been pointed out to me that it's a trademark expression of mine. However, I guess I generally use it when someone is apologizing for something. I feel bad that they are feeling bad and so fire off a quick series of no's in an assurance that I experienced nothing they would have to apologize for.
    Hehe... It's a favourite of mine as well. I use it both for emphasis as in the case above as well as for reassuring people that it's alright. That I didn't mind.



    Quote Originally Posted by tovlo View Post
    It makes sense to me. I was mostly thinking of situations I've been in previously where I've felt a lot of pressure to adopt someone else's perspective. I also feel compelled to be open to things that I may have overlooked that could open my perspective. I want to understand more than anything and I recognize that I don't have within me all I need to understand. I need other's perspectives to get the most clear picture. I actually think it's because of this tendency that sometimes I have to just walk away.
    *nods* Sometimes I find myself doing the same. Wanting to walk away but at the same time feeling obligated to stay so I don't further hurt the other person's feelings.

    But the need to understand other people's perspective really strikes a cord with me. Even though some decisions are personal and wouldn't really affect people however I decided to go, I still feel better talking to people and asking for their takes on things. I feel better in that I haven't overlooked areas when it comes to making my decision.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I've never been called an "idiot" by an INFP. The feeling I always got was that they dismissed my views as "logic," which was what hurt. Being called an idiot wouldn't bother me as much, but being accused of having a perspective based only on logic makes me feel rather worthless. It was also confusing, because I usually believed I had taken people's emotions into account with my own perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    Again, it's just "bruised J" pushback. It's whatever will get the INFP some space. You can take it personally if you wish. But you needn't. The bad feelings are gone on the INFP's side as soon as the INFP's personal space/autonomy is restored.
    Athenian,

    I was thinking about this exchange, and it occurs to me that my response was dismissive. I was looking at your situation as a past event and considering how you should deal with that past insult in the present.

    But in terms of encountering such situations in the future:

    Assuming your INFP acquaintance knew in advance that the comment would hit you where it hurts, then I would say the comment was over the line. As a rule, I would say that it's okay to show emotion, but it's not okay to go for the other person's jugular vein. Going for the jugular vein just transfers the hurt elsewhere and keeps the conflict alive, albeit in a new "carrier."

    So yes, if the wound was inflicted intentionally, I would say you have reason to be distressed and maybe even call your INFP acquaintance to account for what was said. (See below for more.)

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    But I tell my wife to feel free to get good and angry at me when she wants. That's better than bottling it up. I know she can really get fuming at times (like any good INFP). So the quicker she gets angry, the quicker she gets over it and we get back to the good times. Emotions aren't a problem for us. Get 'em out there in the open, and we'll work through them one way or the other.
    In light of what I said to Athenian, and taking into consideration another somewhat contentious thread elsewhere where people discussed whether it's preferable to bottle emotions up or explode and let them out, let me clarify my statement in the quoted passage.

    I encourage my wife to let her emotions out (even explosively), but on the other hand after 8 years together we take it for granted that we don't go for each other's jugular.

    When we have gone for the jugular in the past, it has resulted in prolonged periods of tenseness and defensiveness. Shifting the hurt onto the other person by going for jugular only makes conflicts worse.

    So I think it's important to qualify how we let our emotions out.

    I encourage my wife to blow up and let things out because I do want to know when I'm repeatedly doing something that genuinely bugs her or trivializes her needs. If she only protests mildly, then often I don't take her protestations seriously--I assume it's just a passing irritation. For some things (especially things that I think are minor in the big scheme of things) I really do need her to blow a cork and get in my face so that I'll pay attention. Sometimes she even has to catch me in the act and blow up repeatedly before I can recognize the pervasiveness of the bad habit on my side. After all, Fi is inverted. I'm not necessarily all that Feeling-oriented toward the world around me.

    But after 8 years together, we pretty much take it for granted that we stay away from each other's jugular. We fume, howl, growl, insult, glower, etc., but we also know enough to avoid those special places that really hurt. It's just common sense to us. But given the context above, I figured maybe I should spell that out in more detail here.

    (Sorry for totally derailing the thread, by the way. Us INFPs like to dissect ourselves. My fault. )

  4. #54
    Enigma Nadir's Avatar
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    An acronym and a plea in a phrase I noticed somewhere, though I kind of relate to it -

    "I'm not fucking joking!"
    Not really.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadir View Post
    An acronym and a plea in a phrase I noticed somewhere, though I kind of relate to it -

    "I'm not fucking joking!"
    I can defienitly relate.

    on what FineLine said about the jugular I don't go for the jugular unless all else has failed.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  6. #56
    Senior Member TenebrousReflection's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    Whether specifically intended as an insult or not, it seems INFPs are known for not providing "pushback" on arguments. Apparently it's a bit disconcerting to other types when INFPs hold a strong opinion on something but seem to feel no need to justify it or rationalize it to others, even in the face of strong contrary arguments.

    Somewhere there's an old thread from last spring or summer where some NTs asked INFPs about the lack of "pushback," and I tried to explain that just because the other guy wants to argue a point it doesn't mean the INFP has to respond and argue back. But I'm not sure my explanation was a convincing one.

    It may simply be that we INFPs get an opinion in our heads, and it has such an air of Fi inevitability to it that it just seems like too much effort to argue the point and try to explain it or justify it to others (or even to ourselves). Easier to just respond, "Whatever you say," and then go our own way and do what we intended to do all along.

    I suppose it's basically just laziness. But in a way it reminds me of a INTP's Ti autonomy issue. We're so certain of our opinion that it's even kind of painful to hear other people second-guessing us on the point. On these core opinions, we experience contrary arguments almost as a violation of our personal space and our autonomy. Hence the phenomenon of feeling personally under attack when our opinions are attacked. And thus a certain amount of judicious conflict avoidance when it comes to certain subjects.

    Basically, at such times you're probably seeing our internal Judging function rising to the surface and pushing you away from something connected with our core values.
    If someone is being argumentive, then I don't see it as probable that they will be willing to listen to what I have to say with an open mind (based on personal experience of actually trying to be persuasive/defensive of my views in younger days). I may make an effort to get my point across if its someone I know, but with strangers, once it stops being a civil conversation, I'm "content to let them be wrong".

    "One of us is right, the other isn't, lets let time show us the answer" - INxx ?

    A more personal sentiment (often felt, but rarely spoken)...
    "Aaaargh! why can't you see what I see, if you could, you would understand!"

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