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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    ok if you see it that way (to self: but you're still an idiot)

    [...]

    I don't really care, could you please shut up already, I get that you think I'm a terrible person and I don't know what to do to change your mind, so please shut up so I can think and maybe I'll have an answer.

  2. #32
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    "Someone did that to me once when I was a child and it hurt my feelings, so now as an adult I'm going to go on a crusade and nail you to a cross for daring to victimize me or others in a similar manner."

    (INFPs sometimes have trouble letting go of old wounds.)

  3. #33
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    "but it's my life! why don't you let me make and enjoy my own bad decisions! " - estp and probable other ExxPs as well!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #34
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    "Someone did that to me once when I was a child and it hurt my feelings, so now as an adult I'm going to go on a crusade and nail you to a cross for daring to victimize me or others in a similar manner."

    (INFPs sometimes have trouble letting go of old wounds.)
    Talk about an understatement.

    Here's one I heard from an INFP once (similar things from very strongly expressed ones with weak Te):

    "I understand your logic, but I choose to disagree."

    What's interesting is that they actually often mean that as an insult... and it works, too.

  5. #35
    Senior Member tovlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    "I wonder what will happen if... " "Let's try it! And while we're at it... " "No no no! That'll..." - conversation between an INFJ with an ENTP
    Is the INFJ the first and last one? It sounds right, though I'm not very familiar really with ENTP's.

    Your "no no no!" left me laughing, because it's been pointed out to me that it's a trademark expression of mine. However, I guess I generally use it when someone is apologizing for something. I feel bad that they are feeling bad and so fire off a quick series of no's in an assurance that I experienced nothing they would have to apologize for.
    "We don't see things as they are,
    we see things as we are."
    ...Anais Nin

  6. #36
    Senior Member tovlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I try to reconcile things by saying, "That's your perspective, and this is mine. It's impossible to know which is right, ultimately."

    And I actually believe it. Two people usually can't understand/agree with one another because they each see things from their own perspective, and either won't or can't acknowledge/understand the other's perspective. I like to think it's the latter rather than the former in most cases.
    Quote Originally Posted by heart
    It is complicated (said in a tone that implies further attempts to solve problem will futile)--- INFJ
    Struck me these two might be related.

    I wonder if seeing the possibility of two (or more) differing, but ultimately equally valid, perspectives in existence at one time can lead someone to disengage from a conversation that looks like it might be headed toward a conflict with only one perspective allowed to come out the winner.
    "We don't see things as they are,
    we see things as we are."
    ...Anais Nin

  7. #37
    Senior Member tovlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    ok if you see it that way (to self: but you're still an idiot)
    This one always confused me. I would at first take in the expressed seeming acceptance of the validity of differing perspectives, but then be startled and confused to realize there was really no acceptance going on at all. It was hard to know which expression to react to...the openly expressed one or the one that seemed to be lurking below the surface.

    I admittedly do something related. If I get tired of arguing and see that there's no likely resolution to a conflict of perspectives any time soon, I will openly acknowledge the truth I see in the other person's perspective without drawing much attention to the fact that I still also see truth in the conflicting perspective as well. The other person generally seems satisfied that they've convinced me of their truth and I get peace.
    "We don't see things as they are,
    we see things as we are."
    ...Anais Nin

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    "I understand your logic, but I choose to disagree."

    What's interesting is that they actually often mean that as an insult... and it works, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by tovlo View Post
    This one always confused me. I would at first take in the expressed seeming acceptance of the validity of differing perspectives, but then be startled and confused to realize there was really no acceptance going on at all. It was hard to know which expression to react to...the openly expressed one or the one that seemed to be lurking below the surface.
    Whether specifically intended as an insult or not, it seems INFPs are known for not providing "pushback" on arguments. Apparently it's a bit disconcerting to other types when INFPs hold a strong opinion on something but seem to feel no need to justify it or rationalize it to others, even in the face of strong contrary arguments.

    Somewhere there's an old thread from last spring or summer where some NTs asked INFPs about the lack of "pushback," and I tried to explain that just because the other guy wants to argue a point it doesn't mean the INFP has to respond and argue back. But I'm not sure my explanation was a convincing one.

    It may simply be that we INFPs get an opinion in our heads, and it has such an air of Fi inevitability to it that it just seems like too much effort to argue the point and try to explain it or justify it to others (or even to ourselves). Easier to just respond, "Whatever you say," and then go our own way and do what we intended to do all along.

    I suppose it's basically just laziness. But in a way it reminds me of a INTP's Ti autonomy issue. We're so certain of our opinion that it's even kind of painful to hear other people second-guessing us on the point. On these core opinions, we experience contrary arguments almost as a violation of our personal space and our autonomy. Hence the phenomenon of feeling personally under attack when our opinions are attacked. And thus a certain amount of judicious conflict avoidance when it comes to certain subjects.

    Basically, at such times you're probably seeing our internal Judging function rising to the surface and pushing you away from something connected with our core values.

  9. #39
    Senior Member tovlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    Whether specifically intended as an insult or not, it seems INFPs are known for not providing "pushback" on arguments. Apparently it's a bit disconcerting to other types when INFPs hold a strong opinion on something but seem to feel no need to justify it or rationalize it to others, even in the face of strong contrary arguments.
    Yeah, that makes sense. I generally feel little need to debate with others my perspectives and would be most likely to simply walk away from a conflict too.

    What at least I was was referring to in my comments was that contrast between what seems to be being expressed and what is actually going on inside.

    I think I tended to be startled because on the surface in so many ways I can express similarly to an INFP. We both might express an acceptance of the other person's position externally and a desire not to engage further. It's just that inside I wouldn't probably be doing the quiet "but you're an idiot" thing.

    I guess that's the part that when I realized it went on below the surface startled me.
    "We don't see things as they are,
    we see things as we are."
    ...Anais Nin

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by tovlo View Post
    It's just that inside I wouldn't probably be doing the quiet "but you're an idiot" thing.

    I guess that's the part that when I realized it went on below the surface startled me.
    Your Judging function (Fe) is on the surface and is Auxiliary (is more reflexive). So when you push people away from a tender spot, it's fairly out in the open and automatic.

    Our Judging function (Fi) is internal and is Dominant (is more deliberate and more directly accessible to us). So when it gets bruised, the injury hits more at a sense of who we are, and we can push people away from that part in a more deliberate and duplicitous manner. IOW, we can drum up more pain, outrage, and irritation when our Judging buttons get pushed, and thus do the quiet "but you're an idiot" thing to justify to ourselves why we need space from you at that moment.

    Not that it's your fault or anything. It's just that when it's bruised the J function can be a regular little monster.

    FWIW, by the way, my wife and I are both INFPs. We know what's going on in each other's minds when we get on each other nerves.

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