User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 57

  1. #21
    heart on fire
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,457

    Default

    I like nerds.

  2. #22
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    3,466

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Cockiness, seems like something else entirely. It reminds me of "peacocking," I suppose "showing off" with the aim to impress/intimidate.
    It's also important to note that there are certain subcultures that revolve almost entirely around this concept. Typically, when you see people who don't have optimum circumstances growing up, they will tend to congregate in groups based around intimidation/whatever. (goth/rap/biker/etc.)

    I forgot your personality type, but I'm thinking it was INTP or something? The thing you have to realize is that there are some types (mine for instance), who's confidence doesn't actually have to be founded in reality. We just make it appear from nowhere and expect to be right.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  3. #23
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    9,849

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    That brings up a point about confidence, cockiness, etc.

    For me confidence is proportional to the relative perceived experience I has in a particular context.

    If I perceive that I don't have a lot of experience in a particular context, I am not confident.

    If I perceive that I have more experience with something than I actually do, the I am overconfident.

    Cockiness, seems like something else entirely. It reminds me of "peacocking," I suppose "showing off" with the aim to impress/intimidate.

    This has actually been helpful for me. Because, trying to "impress" anyone is something I find annoying also. Unfortunately, it is a necessary part of daily life. Often times, there IS a need to impress to be given the freedoms I am seeking.

    Perhaps, my visceral dislike of machismo, is connected to my annoyance at needing to "impress" people.

    Anyway, this thread wasn't intended at self-therapy.

    Feel free to ramble on yourselves.

    [/rambling]
    Great post!!!

    I can't stand to see men lek!!!! It's just so, well...pathetic.

    I'm impressed by men who are thoughtful, honest, and sincere.

  4. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    It's also important to note that there are certain subcultures that revolve almost entirely around this concept. Typically, when you see people who don't have optimum circumstances growing up, they will tend to congregate in groups based around intimidation/whatever. (goth/rap/biker/etc.)

    I forgot your personality type, but I'm thinking it was INTP or something? The thing you have to realize is that there are some types (mine for instance), who's confidence doesn't actually have to be founded in reality. We just make it appear from nowhere and expect to be right.

    Interesting. Yes. I believe myself to be an INTP. But I have become quite disillusioned in using the knowledge towards better ends. Anyway...

    Do you consider "swagger" or "peacocking" to be essential to forming your confidence?

    I understand creating a vision, and sticking to it to bring it into reality. This is something I find quite admirable.

    I also understand, that a certain amount of swagger helps in this regard (in recruiting followers, I guess).

    Since, you are the first one who hasn't (essentially) agreed with me. I am most interested in understanding your view on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Great post!!!

    I can't stand to see men lek!!!! It's just so, well...pathetic.

    I'm impressed by men who are thoughtful, honest, and sincere.
    That brings up another point. Is it possible to be thoughtful, honest and sincere, and still "lek" (I like the mating ritual reference, BTW)?

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  5. #25
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    GONE
    Posts
    9,051

    Default

    Well considering that gender is performative, a lot of the way men and women act is to fill or play with gender expectations. Or that idea that someone is watching them and how 'correct' they are in their gender.

    Again, I actually do like cockiness. I like swagger. When it's backed up by something. I don't identify it so much with machismo. Cockiness to me is a little self-conscious but in a tongue-in-cheek, funny kind of way. Machismo takes itself seriously.

    It is partly a degree thing.

    Too much bragging, and WAY too much bragging, especially when it's very bald faced and coupled with putting down other people is just a turn-off. Period. I don't think this is necessarily a definition of machismo or exclusive to it. Any gender can be guilty of it.

    Why do women hate it so or interpret it as insecurity? Well, it's more that it seems like false advertising, plus just an unpleasant demeanor. You also assume if someone is this 'machismo' in the way they present themselves to the world, they will also try to dominate you in the relationship and be too busy puffing themselves up to really be there for you.

    I have found in my experience that HEALTHY self-made succesful or accomplished people are actually the opposite -- quite humble actually. Or even downplay their success and wealth, especially as they are aware of how much they have and do not want to be taken advantage of and already get enough positive attention and reinforcement from their actions. They are at ease with people basically and they don't act like they are impressed with themselves.

    I think that's a key point too. If even you are surprised at how 'great' you are, it makes others think you don't have a lot going on and are easily impressed.

    This isn't to say they never talk about themselves or what they've done, they just don't shove it in your face or pat themselves on the back constantly or at all.

    I guess it's similar to snottiness.

    People who inherited their wealth and class, especially young people who are pretty ignorant about the 'real world' are snotty because they are out of touch with reality and don't understand the value of what they have.

    Also, machismo to me, again implies wanting to dominate the woman in the relationship in an old school way. A lot of women, especially younger women, do not want this.

    And that's my rambling reply to you!

  6. #26
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    3,466

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Do you consider "swagger" or "peacocking" to be essential to forming your confidence?
    There's two ways to look at it. When in the "fake it till you make it" mode, I believe that it does help. However, when it is genuine, it is simply a byproduct of confidence. I didn't realize that I literally swaggered until multiple people pointed it out to me (I know you aren't just literally talking about the way of walking, but it's the easiest example).

    I understand creating a vision, and sticking to it to bring it into reality. This is something I find quite admirable.
    I'm a big time believer in this, but I think that is just partially becomes it comes naturally to us (it has its downfalls). In my case, I've always had professional confidence. I expected to be obeyed if I felt that I had to take charge. However, I had virtually no social grace until a couple of years ago when I made it a point of focus. The problem is, during this transition period, I'm displaying my professional confidence outwardly without the NF ability to read people, which results in the appearance of cockiness/arrogance, despite the fact that I was uncomfortable around people most of the time.

    What I'm getting at, is that it is entirely circumstantial for each indidivual. Sometimes it is a case of overcompensating for social unease. Sometimes it is a case of true, natural confidence. Of course, there are outside influences too, such as your drug dealer reference. When you do certain things on a regular basis, you are forced to adopt a certain mentality. In my case, my extracurricular activities did have an influence on increasing my confidence.

    I also understand, that a certain amount of swagger helps in this regard (in recruiting followers, I guess).
    True. Every arena has a certain order that must be maintained.

    Since, you are the first one who hasn't (essentially) agreed with me. I am most interested in understanding your view on this.
    I don't necessarily disagree with you on this either. I do, in fact, hold the same kind of irrational grudges against certain social groups (gangbangers, for instance, despite the fact that I have some Crip friends). Plus, I'm quite amazed at the way you analytically take what I'm saying in stride. I know I have a tendency to come off like I'm attacking unintentionally. It's just my method of discerning truth through discussion.

    That brings up another point. Is it possible to be thoughtful, honest and sincere, and still "lek" (I like the mating ritual reference, BTW)?
    And what is lek?
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  7. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    And that's my rambling reply to you!
    Appreciated.

    More rambling from more members please.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  8. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    There's two ways to look at it. When in the "fake it till you make it" mode, I believe that it does help. However, when it is genuine, it is simply a byproduct of confidence. I didn't realize that I literally swaggered until multiple people pointed it out to me (I know you aren't just literally talking about the way of walking, but it's the easiest example).
    I've heard the phrase "fake it till you make it." But don't actually know waht that means.

    Is it that we fake confidence till it becomes real?

    It's not something I've tried. Like I mentioned before. My confidence comes with my own perceived experience, but I can see some value in what you are saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I don't necessarily disagree with you on this either. I do, in fact, hold the same kind of irrational grudges against certain social groups (gangbangers, for instance, despite the fact that I have some Crip friends). Plus, I'm quite amazed at the way you analytically take what I'm saying in stride. I know I have a tendency to come off like I'm attacking unintentionally. It's just my method of discerning truth through discussion.



    And what is lek?

    I didn't find your tone attacking at all. Also, "lek" is essentially "peacock" but more generally applied to the animal kingdom.

    A lek is a gathering of males, of certain animal species, for the purposes of competitive mating display. Leks assemble before and during the breeding season, on a daily basis. ...
    From wikipedia.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  9. #29
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    827 sp/so
    Posts
    20,122

    Default

    confidence is SEXY False confidence is a turn off though

    I like a guy who knows who he is and isn't afraid of it (and isn't afraid of me! ) If his posturing and machismo is an expression of false confidence it's a total turn off to me I've been involved and hurt by guys who were lacking in the are of confidence before and I've come to realize that there's nothing I can do to make them more confident :sad:

    If he just happens to walk with a swagger, like beer and enjoy yelling at the tv during baseball games though- that's perfectly fine! one of my favorite men I've ever been involved with was a manly man (with the exception of the fact that he cried more than I do! ) He actually was genuinely comfortable with himself though- which is the real point of attraction

    I guess what I'm saying is that confidence is a turn on- if a guy who is confident happens to amble in with a swagger that's perfectly fine, and if he doesn't that's fine as well!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  10. #30
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    MBTI
    istp
    Posts
    1,962

    Default

    ygolo, you're over thinking something that is quite simple...

    masculinity is just another fact of life--like, the sky is blue. those who understand that get used to the idea and live it out in a matter-of-fact manner. you don't need to tell people that the sky is blue or even bother arguing about it. just learn to accept your ability and inability and let the chips fall where they will.

    machismo on the other hand (if my interpretation of your usage of the word is correct) is just on the other side of a fine line from insecurity. the only difference between a pathetic man and the guy strutting around with bulging muscles and a spray-on tan is that the latter knows how to put on an act. your frustration is probably rooted in the fact that in the adolescent years, a lot of people actually believe it.

    perhaps you'll find solace in the fact that most reasonable intelligent people can identify that someone is compensating just as easily as you do. also realize that no amount of horn tooting it ever going to change the reality that matters.

Similar Threads

  1. The Banned and The Damned
    By Haight in forum Official Decrees
    Replies: 331
    Last Post: 11-30-2017, 07:12 PM
  2. Kicking and screaming
    By rivercrow in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 04-25-2007, 10:18 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO