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  1. #11
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    It would come down to the numbers I believe. How many physicians oppose it? 50? 500? 2/3rds? How often do the side effects (which is, no matter how devastating they seem to us, what they are) come into play? Where is the correlation between the use of the product and an increase in the desired behavior the product is marketed for? Is it always there? Barely there?

    In the meantime, I certainly wouldn't encourage the use of such a product.

  2. #12
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    I should mention that some people are helpless to do anything when it comes to drugs and therapies. I'm not saying this to excuse anyone using this therapy, or as an excuse for what this therapy is... I'm not saying this is what is going on here. But, I am saying, some people have to do awful therapies and don't have a choice about it legally.

    Example: Alzheimers. We're stuck feeding my grandmother drugs that the doctors that prescribe them themselves say that the side-effects are horrible, and it does nothing to slow, or prevent, the degradation of the mind with dementia. The drugs, in short, do nothing to help the patient. So why is my aunt forced to give my grandmother these drugs? Because some company claims they MAY help, even though the evidence suggests otherwise. If my grandmother is not given the drugs, it can be claimed that my aunt was being neglectful to my grandmother, and all sorts of bad things can happen from there, including being stripped of rights and criminal sentencing. So, my aunt watches my grandmother take drugs that are hurting the rest of her body just to prove that she's not going to be neglectful and hurt my grandma by denying her medication.
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  3. #13
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I should mention that some people are helpless to do anything when it comes to drugs and therapies. I'm not saying this to excuse anyone using this therapy, or as an excuse for what this therapy is... I'm not saying this is what is going on here. But, I am saying, some people have to do awful therapies and don't have a choice about it legally.
    Exactly, great point Kyuuei. Anyone under the age of 18 is legally under their parent's care. Now, I guarantee you if I were not cool with some meds that a doctor wanted to prescribe me when I was younger, that I was not going to take. Hell No!

    But, the situation is alot harder for those with developmental disabilities, severe autism or ADHD spectrum disorders, or other chronic issues that cause their parents stress and grief. Some Mom's and Dad's aren't as concerned about thier kids long term well being as much as they are about peace and quiet in the house. There is a wiiiiiide array of parenting styles in this world, not all are good...

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Example: Alzheimers. We're stuck feeding my grandmother drugs that the doctors that prescribe them themselves say that the side-effects are horrible, and it does nothing to slow, or prevent, the degradation of the mind with dementia. The drugs, in short, do nothing to help the patient. So why is my aunt forced to give my grandmother these drugs? Because some company claims they MAY help, even though the evidence suggests otherwise. If my grandmother is not given the drugs, it can be claimed that my aunt was being neglectful to my grandmother, and all sorts of bad things can happen from there, including being stripped of rights and criminal sentencing. So, my aunt watches my grandmother take drugs that are hurting the rest of her body just to prove that she's not going to be neglectful and hurt my grandma by denying her medication.
    That blows, I am so sorry to hear that.
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  4. #14
    Member Ferrus's Avatar
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    Has anyone considered though that chemical castration could actually be a preferential outcome for autists? I speak as someone who has tendencies towards autism and dyspraxia here.

    To someone who is psychologically incapable of forming normal human relationships, what is the sex drive but a tragic joke, sardonically laughing at the cruel incompatibilities of one's personal genomic expression? Nothing but a source of misery and irrational behaviours, causing compounded torture.

    Truthfully I wish there was a means by which I could be chemically castrated. It would enable me to return back to a strictly rationalistic schema that has served me well. It would render my being-in-the-world somewhat closer to my existential intentionality. And it would reduce the agony of endless sexual frustration and the grim realisation of a fate of quite probably never actually even holding another person again.

    So, with all due respect to what would be the sensibilities of the 'neurotypical' - I can see the merits of the side effects. Although gynecomastia is something I would sincerely wish to avoid.

  5. #15
    (blankpages) Xenon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    might as well try it and then they can learn that its not the Hg that's doing this.
    Thing is though, if it's suppressing testosterone production that can have a behavioural affect on some kids. So parents might see their kids becoming calmer and quieter and think the decrease in difficult behaviour is a sign the drug is getting rid of mercury or other toxins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrus View Post
    Has anyone considered though that chemical castration could actually be a preferential outcome for autists? I speak as someone who has tendencies towards autism and dyspraxia here.

    To someone who is psychologically incapable of forming normal human relationships, what is the sex drive but a tragic joke, sardonically laughing at the cruel incompatibilities of one's personal genomic expression? Nothing but a source of misery and irrational behaviours, causing compounded torture.

    Truthfully I wish there was a means by which I could be chemically castrated. It would enable me to return back to a strictly rationalistic schema that has served me well. It would render my being-in-the-world somewhat closer to my existential intentionality. And it would reduce the agony of endless sexual frustration and the grim realisation of a fate of quite probably never actually even holding another person again.

    So, with all due respect to what would be the sensibilities of the 'neurotypical' - I can see the merits of the side effects. Although gynecomastia is something I would sincerely wish to avoid.
    For one, suppressing hormone production over the long term is going to affect more than just your sex drive. And I don't just mean man-boobs either. Sex hormones play other roles in the body. The article mentioned heart problems, bone problems and stunted growth as possible side effects of the drug. If these kids are on it for years, no one knows the eventual consequences.

    Secondly, there's a difference between a grown adult choosing to suppress his own hormone levels, and giving this treatment to a child who likely won't fully understand what's going on.

    What I find most disturbing is that this treatment does not "cure autism" or even help these kids function, it just makes them quieter and easier to deal with. Makes bulls into oxen, as Halla said.

  6. #16
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    If the sex drive made a low-functioning autistic unmanageable and suppressing the sex drive helped, I would not oppose that kind of treatment.

    If the autistic person desired such treatment and was willing to live with the side effects, I would not oppose the treatment, either.

    If chemical castration is being sold to desperate parents as an autism cure by snake oil doctors, then I have a really big problem with it.
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  7. #17
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrus View Post
    Has anyone considered though that chemical castration could actually be a preferential outcome for autists? I speak as someone who has tendencies towards autism and dyspraxia here.

    To someone who is psychologically incapable of forming normal human relationships, what is the sex drive but a tragic joke, sardonically laughing at the cruel incompatibilities of one's personal genomic expression? Nothing but a source of misery and irrational behaviours, causing compounded torture.

    .
    Yeah but isnt the sex drive unaffected in chemical castration? IIRC It simply removes your ability to have sex and reproduce, so I'm not sure you would be avoiding this tragedy that nature puts Autsies and aspies through.

    EDIT: ok I double checked and it seems like it DOES reduce libido, so my mistake.

    Quote Originally Posted by blankpages View Post
    Thing is though, if it's suppressing testosterone production that can have a behavioural affect on some kids. So parents might see their kids becoming calmer and quieter and think the decrease in difficult behaviour is a sign the drug is getting rid of mercury or other toxins.
    There could be all sorts of negative side effects, all drugs work that way, but until they go through the rigormarole of testing out the treatment, they can't evaluate the positive/negative outcomes and hence the efficacy. The doctors will be the ones to evaluate the overall treatment efficacy, not the parents. I can see what you're saying about "masking the problem at hand rather than curing it" though.

    But still if they think mercury is it..... let them go through this dangerous and disastrous treatment option, so no one else will have to go through it again. In medicine, there's ALWAYS a guinea pig.

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