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The Hatred of Spoken Cultures

Mole

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What is as amazing as it is invisible is the sheer unrelenting hatred of spoken cultures.

The spoken culture of the Vietnamese was so hated the literate killed three million Vietnamese, 1.1 million combatants and 2 million civilians, all based on the lie of the Tonkin Gulf Incident.

And as I write the literate have their drones flying over the homes of those in a spoken culture, killing at will.

So naturally the literate hate the new spoken culture, called the electronic culture or the noosphere.

And the literate take the emblem of the new electronic spoken culture, the telephone, and use it as an insult.

Yes, the literate insult us by calling us phoney.

And it even gets worse on this site as they also call us creepy.

And even worse, a moderator chimes in and calls us creepy too.

They call us creepy and phoney.

The literate can bomb us and insult us but we continue to keep on talking and listening.

And what the literate hate most of all is that we listen to one another.
 
S

Sniffles

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Vietnam was bombed because it was illiterate? And here I thought it had to do with Cold War geopolitics. Silly me.
 

Valiant

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Vietnam was bombed because it was illiterate? And here I thought it had to do with Cold War geopolitics. Silly me.

I swear, it didn't have anything to do with the alleged "domino effect".
It was all about French grammar/language abuse. Nothing else.

I die.
 

Arthur Schopenhauer

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Pulsating through the unending coils and through the heated copper is truth, and that truth is named Victor, and it is Victor who we call phoney but the truth is that we have not picked up the phone and it is HE who should call us because it is HE who is calling. And we do not listen and we do not wish to yet we still wait for the beep and so does truth, and so does his truth that we may call our own one day, but only when we pay our debts to society and mend our plans with At&t or Verizon or even some obscure prepayed phone contract like the ones you can get at Walmart or at those ghetto dollarstores they have in some places around here.

But we must go, and we cannot travel through coil and copper. Instead we go by what we are able to go by and we buy what we are able to get by with.

The sci-fi lover drives the Saturn, the gay man drives the Benz, the explorer drives the Quest, the pimp drives an Escort, the hunter drives a Prowler and the Kid drives a Ram.

And so we can all hear Victor now. The deadzone we once had has been filled and all is well, and all is well.
 

Mole

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Phoney, Creepy and Illiterate

Vietnam was bombed because it was illiterate

The very word 'illiterate' is pejorative, as are the words 'phoney' and 'creepy'.

Yet this is what the literate call us every day.

The literate not only want to get rid of us, but they want to blame us as well.

So the insults are never ending. One moment we are phoney, the next we are creepy, followed by the grand insult of all, illiterate.

The literate can't see their way forward, for they keep looking in the rear vision mirror of literacy, while the spoken world is rushing towards us through the windshield.
 
G

Ginkgo

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So what insult do you anticipate you'll garner from this thread? That's what this thread is about, isn't it? You're like some dude running around, dressed up as a target at a firing range. You scoot your way in with the rest of the targets, get shot, and then sue the property owner because you have a bullet in your ass. Then you come back and do it again, and again, and again. In a way, you're bombing yourself.
 
S

Sniffles

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Whatever you do Mystic, don't mention anything about Australia's involvement in Vietnam. Why that would imply that Aussies are literate.
 

Mole

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So what insult do you anticipate you'll garner from this thread? That's what this thread is about, isn't it? You're like some dude running around, dressed up as a target at a firing range. You scoot your way in with the rest of the targets, get shot, and then sue the property owner because you have a bullet in your ass. Then you come back and do it again, and again, and again. In a way, you're bombing yourself.

Blame the victim.
 

Mole

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The Eye and the Ear

Whatever you do Mystic, don't mention anything about Australia's involvement in Vietnam. Why that would imply that Aussies are literate.

This is an interesting point.

And it's a point made by Alexis-Charles-Henri Clérel de Tocqueville in the 19th Century.

Alexis pointed out that he could understand American culture on one visit because it is a literate culture, linear and sequential. So all he had to do, Alexis said, was to find the central point and everything flowed logically from that.

On the other hand, he said, he could not understand British culture without spending a lot of time there because British culture was aural, an auditory culture, with its centre everywhere and its margins nowhere. In other words, British culture, unlike American culture, has no centre and no Frontier. And so quite unlike American culture, British culture can't be approached in a logical manner.

So of course the Americans here are constantly calling out for me to be logical because they are deaf to an aural culture, just as Americans are deaf to our sense of humour.

So we are separated not only by a common language but by the eye and the ear.
 
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Ginkgo

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This is an interesting point.

And it's a point made by Alexis-Charles-Henri Clérel de Tocqueville in the 19th Century.

Alexis pointed out that he could understand American culture on one visit because it is a literate culture, linear and sequential. So all he had to do, Alexis said, was to find the central point and everything flowed logically from that.

On the other hand, he said, he could not understand British culture without spending a lot of time there because British culture was aural, an auditory culture, with its centre everywhere and its margins nowhere. In other words, British culture, unlike American culture, has no centre and no Frontier. And so quite unlike American culture, British culture can't be approached in a logical manner.

So of course the Americans here are constantly calling out for me to be logical because they are deaf to an aural culture, just as Americans are deaf to our sense of humour.

So we are separated not only by a common language but by the eye and the ear.

Well, that wold certainly explain why you demonize Noah Webster. How could you have a linear and sequential language without first having succinct definitions for your words?

But if you didn't have some sort of logic to your language, how could you understand each other? Even if the languages are mixed or intermingled in a culture, those languages still have to have a "starting point". They're invariably going to manifest themselves in informal dialects afterwards.
 

Mole

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Well, that wold certainly explain why you demonize Noah Webster. How could you have a linear and sequential language without first having succinct definitions for your words?

But if you didn't have some sort of logic to your language, how could you understand each other? Even if the languages are mixed or intermingled in a culture, those languages still have to have a "starting point". They're invariably going to manifest themselves in informal dialects afterwards.

Print is linear and sequential. The spoken word is not.

And to understand this click on -

http://student.harford.edu/art108/readings/mcluhan_understanding_media.pdf
 
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Ginkgo

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Print is linear and sequential. The spoken word is not.

And to understand this click on -

http://student.harford.edu/art108/readings/mcluhan_understanding_media.pdf

Language itself is linear and sequential.

It can be broken into a dichotomy - Spoken word (which is auditory and verbal) and written word (which is visual and either typed or written)

It can then be broken down into another dichotomy - dialogue (in which 2 people are speaking) or monologue (in which only 1 person is speaking).

Most of your posts are of the written word and are monologues, while most of ours are dialogues. Hence why you victimize yourself and attract attention. Every one of your posts is set up as a monologue, which is meant to be solicited and brought into a dialogue. However, instead of engagement, you persist in your monologue and solicit even more attention. It comes in both negative and positive flavors. Hence your "Hatred of Spoken Culture" gig here.
 

Mole

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Most of your posts are of the written word and are monologues, while most of ours are dialogues. Hence why you victimize yourself and attract attention. Every one of your posts is set up as a monologue, which is meant to be solicited and brought into a dialogue. However, instead of engagement, you persist in your monologue and solicit even more attention. It comes in both negative and positive flavors. Hence your "Hatred of Spoken Culture" gig here.

It's a nice theory however I am engaged in a dialogue with myself.

And it's true I am not engaged in a dialogue with you.

So why am I not engaged in a dialogue with you?

I don't engage in a dialogue with you because the price is too high.

To engage in a dialogue with you I would have to accept your values and mores and even your culture. But I notice you don't accept my values and mores and culture, and indeed you remain invincibly ignorant of everything that is important to me.

And I also notice you remain invincibly ignorant of all other cultures as well. And you take your own culture at face value.

And at the same time you demand we engage in dialogue with you.

Perhaps you are asking too much.
 

Thalassa

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I'm confused as to how American culture was more literate than English culture in the 19th century. How is it that British culture was more "aural" when Americans were probably illiterate in higher percentages than the well-established British during that time?

Explain. Thanks.
 

Mole

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I'm confused as to how American culture was more literate than English culture in the 19th century. How is it that British culture was more "aural" when Americans were probably illiterate in higher percentages than the well-established British during that time?

Explain. Thanks.

It's all explained in, "Understanding Media - the Extensions of Man", by Marshall McLuhan.

You can read it by clicking on - http://student.harford.edu/art108/readings/mcluhan_understanding_media.pdf

And a further interesting question is how is your culture changing from a literate culture to an electronic culture?

And why is an electronic culture aural, tactile, visual and proprioceptive while the literate culture is visual?

Why does the literate culture privilege the sense of sight, while the electronic culture engages and extends all the senses?

And why is the electronic culture and tribal cultures both aural cultures as opposed to visual?

These are all interesting questions answered by Marshall McLuhan.
 

Thalassa

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Thanks for the link, but that's a 400 page book. Could you please summarize that one idea, to begin with?
 
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