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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Whatever you do Mystic, don't mention anything about Australia's involvement in Vietnam. Why that would imply that Aussies are literate.
    This is an interesting point.

    And it's a point made by Alexis-Charles-Henri Clérel de Tocqueville in the 19th Century.

    Alexis pointed out that he could understand American culture on one visit because it is a literate culture, linear and sequential. So all he had to do, Alexis said, was to find the central point and everything flowed logically from that.

    On the other hand, he said, he could not understand British culture without spending a lot of time there because British culture was aural, an auditory culture, with its centre everywhere and its margins nowhere. In other words, British culture, unlike American culture, has no centre and no Frontier. And so quite unlike American culture, British culture can't be approached in a logical manner.

    So of course the Americans here are constantly calling out for me to be logical because they are deaf to an aural culture, just as Americans are deaf to our sense of humour.

    So we are separated not only by a common language but by the eye and the ear.

  2. #12
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    Dont try to lecture me on Tocqueville.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    This is an interesting point.

    And it's a point made by Alexis-Charles-Henri Clérel de Tocqueville in the 19th Century.

    Alexis pointed out that he could understand American culture on one visit because it is a literate culture, linear and sequential. So all he had to do, Alexis said, was to find the central point and everything flowed logically from that.

    On the other hand, he said, he could not understand British culture without spending a lot of time there because British culture was aural, an auditory culture, with its centre everywhere and its margins nowhere. In other words, British culture, unlike American culture, has no centre and no Frontier. And so quite unlike American culture, British culture can't be approached in a logical manner.

    So of course the Americans here are constantly calling out for me to be logical because they are deaf to an aural culture, just as Americans are deaf to our sense of humour.

    So we are separated not only by a common language but by the eye and the ear.
    Well, that wold certainly explain why you demonize Noah Webster. How could you have a linear and sequential language without first having succinct definitions for your words?

    But if you didn't have some sort of logic to your language, how could you understand each other? Even if the languages are mixed or intermingled in a culture, those languages still have to have a "starting point". They're invariably going to manifest themselves in informal dialects afterwards.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    Well, that wold certainly explain why you demonize Noah Webster. How could you have a linear and sequential language without first having succinct definitions for your words?

    But if you didn't have some sort of logic to your language, how could you understand each other? Even if the languages are mixed or intermingled in a culture, those languages still have to have a "starting point". They're invariably going to manifest themselves in informal dialects afterwards.
    Print is linear and sequential. The spoken word is not.

    And to understand this click on -

    http://student.harford.edu/art108/re...ding_media.pdf

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Print is linear and sequential. The spoken word is not.

    And to understand this click on -

    http://student.harford.edu/art108/re...ding_media.pdf
    Language itself is linear and sequential.

    It can be broken into a dichotomy - Spoken word (which is auditory and verbal) and written word (which is visual and either typed or written)

    It can then be broken down into another dichotomy - dialogue (in which 2 people are speaking) or monologue (in which only 1 person is speaking).

    Most of your posts are of the written word and are monologues, while most of ours are dialogues. Hence why you victimize yourself and attract attention. Every one of your posts is set up as a monologue, which is meant to be solicited and brought into a dialogue. However, instead of engagement, you persist in your monologue and solicit even more attention. It comes in both negative and positive flavors. Hence your "Hatred of Spoken Culture" gig here.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    Most of your posts are of the written word and are monologues, while most of ours are dialogues. Hence why you victimize yourself and attract attention. Every one of your posts is set up as a monologue, which is meant to be solicited and brought into a dialogue. However, instead of engagement, you persist in your monologue and solicit even more attention. It comes in both negative and positive flavors. Hence your "Hatred of Spoken Culture" gig here.
    It's a nice theory however I am engaged in a dialogue with myself.

    And it's true I am not engaged in a dialogue with you.

    So why am I not engaged in a dialogue with you?

    I don't engage in a dialogue with you because the price is too high.

    To engage in a dialogue with you I would have to accept your values and mores and even your culture. But I notice you don't accept my values and mores and culture, and indeed you remain invincibly ignorant of everything that is important to me.

    And I also notice you remain invincibly ignorant of all other cultures as well. And you take your own culture at face value.

    And at the same time you demand we engage in dialogue with you.

    Perhaps you are asking too much.

  7. #17
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    I'm confused as to how American culture was more literate than English culture in the 19th century. How is it that British culture was more "aural" when Americans were probably illiterate in higher percentages than the well-established British during that time?

    Explain. Thanks.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I'm confused as to how American culture was more literate than English culture in the 19th century. How is it that British culture was more "aural" when Americans were probably illiterate in higher percentages than the well-established British during that time?

    Explain. Thanks.
    It's all explained in, "Understanding Media - the Extensions of Man", by Marshall McLuhan.

    You can read it by clicking on - http://student.harford.edu/art108/re...ding_media.pdf

    And a further interesting question is how is your culture changing from a literate culture to an electronic culture?

    And why is an electronic culture aural, tactile, visual and proprioceptive while the literate culture is visual?

    Why does the literate culture privilege the sense of sight, while the electronic culture engages and extends all the senses?

    And why is the electronic culture and tribal cultures both aural cultures as opposed to visual?

    These are all interesting questions answered by Marshall McLuhan.

  9. #19
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    Thanks for the link, but that's a 400 page book. Could you please summarize that one idea, to begin with?

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Thanks for the link, but that's a 400 page book. Could you please summarize that one idea, to begin with?
    The medium is the message.

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