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  1. #1
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    Question Category and Sympathy

    Let us look at the board in front of us. And we see it is categorized. It not only has a large number of categories but it has sub-categories and sub-sub-categories.

    In fact the board in front of us is a hierarchy of categories.

    And then we look at the threads themselves and we find that almost all are asking for sympathy. And as if by some miracle, they get what they ask for.

    It puts someone who loathes categories and hierarchies of categories in a difficult position, as it puts in the same position someone who loathes sympathy.

    Of course I love creativity and empathy, the very antitheses of categories and sympathy.

    So I have been accused for 6,000 posts of breaking category, of posting off topic.

    And at a slightly deeper level I am accused of being unsympathetic.

    In fact members openly try to get rid of me.

    But what is most interesting is that this is institutional. Both categories and sympathy are not only supported by the members but by the administrators and moderators.

    So the best the creative and empathic can do here is survive. There is no possibility for the creative and empathic to thrive.

    So the only interesting question remains - why is this board devoted to categorizing and sympathy?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Hi Victor. I thought sympathy was a subset of empathy.

    So the only interesting question remains - why is this board devoted to categorizing and sympathy?
    Anyway, isn't that pretty much how human beings function? We categorize the world with logical structures and categorize our relationships with sympathetic and empathetic structures. The less we do of the two above the more primal and less intelligent we become. That's the way I see it anyway.

  3. #3
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    Oh what a blow that phantom gave me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Sticks View Post
    Hi Victor. I thought sympathy was a subset of empathy.

    Anyway, isn't that pretty much how human beings function? We categorize the world with logical structures and categorize our relationships with sympathetic and empathetic structures. The less we do of the two above the more primal and less intelligent we become. That's the way I see it anyway.
    Sure, Little_Sticks, you see it that way because you are literate and are part of a literate culture.

    And Alexis-Charles-Henri Clérel de Tocqueville made exactly the same observation of the USA in the 19th Century. And it remains true today.

    And a literate culture privileges the eye and so is a visual culture. Whereas my culture is an aural and auditory culture and we listen rather than see.

    And naturally the members of a visual culture see those of an aural culture as more primal and less intelligent.

    So you constantly insult us with the best intentions in the world.

    And if the members of the visual culture are part of the largest economy in the world, they start to be oppressive, particularly if their military/industrial complex is in a constant state of war, and their companies are constantly seeking short term profit, and they have the most successful propaganda system in the world.

    Fortunately the literate are being replaced by the electronic. And so the privilege of the eye will be replaced by a democracy of the senses - we shall lose our minds and come to our senses.

    Naturally this is disorientating for you and causes you the emotional pain of cognitive dissonance, so we expect you to keep lashing out and invading other countries. After all, the aural is invisible to you, and as you stagger around the globe we can hear you say, "We don't know who the enemy is. We can't tell the combatants from the civilians", and then we hear you whisper hurt and perplexed, "Oh what a blow that phantom gave me".

  4. #4
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Well it wasn't really meant as an insult. If I view someone as less intelligent than I, it doesn't mean I have to look down on them or consider them insignificant or someone in the way of the intelligent to do so. As an example, I could see someone who is raised to think that life is a trial to get into paradise with Allah and thinks to accomplish this they have to fight and destroy all other religions as unintelligent. But when I say unintelligent I'm not talking about their intellectual capacity. Instead it is my perception that they are concerned only with hating and making the world a torturous place for others and I see that as unintelligent.

    But do they see it this way? Of course not. And they probably view me as unintelligent. I suppose the only way to truly alleviate this problem though is to accept them as additional constraints on reality, see them as neither anything but what my understanding is capable of seeing them as and adapt to them within reason like everything else, and accept that life is just a question until death.

    Outside of that though, I don't particularly agree with my government in the way it handles its economic policies or how it handles and directs its own internal functioning. I don't think it can be said either whether being oppressive with the military is true or not. There is a lot of shit going on in the middle east and we have a choice to get involved or do nothing and hope it doesn't get worse or turn into something devastating like the third Reich in World War II. The invasion of Iraq was questionable, not because of the idea of liberating a country, but because a lot of our military and soldiers are from poor families that don't feel like the people at war with them deserve any respect or dignity because the soldiers themselves don't get any from their own country. Guantanamo Bay is a prime example. No one knows if we are a good or bad presence and even we aren't sure. Our leaders are stupid, sometimes corrupt, and without compassion and moral conviction. People with moral conviction tend to stay away from the military for this very fact. And a lot of people just serve because they don't know what else to do, unfortunately. That's not exactly the kind of military you want. And it doesn't help that the leaders are incompetent and send soldiers into situations with an enemy that is more or less unpredictable to them. That's a big no-no in military strategy. That's probably one of the biggest problems with the US - bad leadership. A lot of soldiers have even had horror stories of being treated badly and getting the boot without any help after losing limbs. It's chaotic. We have the effect of communities failing and people more relying on their families for support, leading to a further competitive survival instinct and fear in society, a government that becomes increasingly corrupt with each day as it grows more and more power and restraints over peoples lives, and the stupid ignorance people have to believe the government will take care of them/things while it builds and maintains an aristocracy. It's disgraceful that american citizens have so little control over the workings of their government and yet believe they do.

    The government is at the point where it should probably be stripped of a lot of its powers except those we need to defend ourselves from foreign invaders. And it would be nice if there was a way to eliminate pork barreling by having more people involved in the government and able to represent themselves instead of some lousy politician that will screw up the rest of the country as long as it gets what its state wants from the government. Pork barreling is probably partly an inherent trait in standard human relations, but the more aware people are, I think the more willing they will be to let go of a project they want for their state in order to do much more good for the country as a whole.

    But I'm not even sure what we're/I'm talking about now. And some stupid asshole is likely going to take out of context everything I wrote about or try to turn it into a rant, so I just want to preemptively say a couple words in case that happens.

    "FUCK ALL"

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Sticks View Post
    There is a lot of shit going on in the middle east and we have a choice to get involved or do nothing and hope it doesn't get worse or turn into something devastating like the third Reich in World War II. The invasion of Iraq was questionable, not because of the idea of liberating a country, but because a lot of our military and soldiers are from poor families that don't feel like the people at war with them deserve any respect or dignity because the soldiers themselves don't get any from their own country.
    The Nuremberg War Crimes Trials after WW II found that aggression, that is, invading another country, is a war crime.

    And unlike other countries your's will not allow itself to be brought before the International Criminal Court.

  6. #6
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    lol @ the idea that categories are the opposite of creativity

    translation: "Categorizing people is an evil and oppressive international conspiracy to destroy individuality and creativity"

    wow gosh victor we've never heard THAT one before.

    here's an idea for you: for some people (read: people other than you--yes, they actually do exist!) categorizing is a way of expressing creativity and furthering our understanding of the value in other people's individuality.

    are you capable of taking that idea seriously? if not perhaps you should reexamine your arrogant self-assessment as creative and open-minded, and stop projecting your cognitive preferences onto everyone else/declaring anyone who doesn't share them "uncreative."
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    lol @ the idea that categories are the opposite of creativity

    translation: "Categorizing people is an evil and oppressive international conspiracy to destroy individuality and creativity"

    wow gosh victor we've never heard THAT one before.

    here's an idea for you: for some people (read: people other than you--yes, they actually do exist!) categorizing is a way of expressing creativity and furthering our understanding of the value in other people's individuality.

    are you capable of taking that idea seriously? if not perhaps you should reexamine your arrogant self-assessment as creative and open-minded, and stop projecting your cognitive preferences onto everyone else/declaring anyone who doesn't share them "uncreative."
    This is a big ask Sim. And you have just come back.

    Perhaps you might like to start off with a more modest proposal.

  8. #8
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    This is a big ask Sim. And you have just come back.

    Perhaps you might like to start off with a more modest proposal.
    I dunno, I figured since I was posting in one of your threads it'd be more appropriate to just repeat the same tired paranoid self-serving conspiracy theory drivel I've already posted 10,000 times.

    Don't you think?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #9
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    Smile Vitamin S

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I dunno, I figured since I was posting in one of your threads it'd be more appropriate to just repeat the same tired paranoid self-serving conspiracy theory drivel I've already posted 10,000 times.

    Don't you think?
    Oh come on Sim, no one can accuse you of being tired of paranoia or self serving conspiracy theory drivel. I mean that's why you read every word I write and why you take your valuable time to reply and let me know where I am going wrong.

    Sim, you are an essential element in our diet, and behind your back we call you Vitamin S.

  10. #10
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Oh come on Sim, no one can accuse you of being tired of paranoia or self serving conspiracy theory drivel. I mean that's why you read every word I write and why you take your valuable time to reply and let me know where I am going wrong.

    Sim, you are an essential element in our diet, and behind your back you are known as vitamin S.
    On the contrary, my dear Victor--I am positively sick to death of your paranoia and self-serving conspiracy theory drivel.

    While you are quite articulate and stylistically unique, I find the content of your posts dreadfully boring and repetitive.

    Every single one reduces to, "MBTI is an evil conspiracy intended to crush the soul of humanity and I'm the only one clever enough to recognize it" and/or "Categorizing people is evil and dehumanizing because it squelches freedom of self-expression."

    And as much I hate to use Jungian functional terms to explain it, you don't seem to realize that all you're doing is mindlessly parroting the fundamental axioms of Fi, again and again.

    There's nothing wrong with that. You don't have to categorize yourself if you don't want to, but your ongoing assumption that anyone who views categorization differently from you is uncreative and/or part of an evil international conspiracy to subjugate creative expression is a laughably limited perspective for someone who clearly considers himself so multi-faceted.

    For people like me, categorizing is a form of creative expression. The categories are not static and they do not box people in; rather, they constantly shift and rearrange themselves the more I learn about the nature of other people and their similarities, differences and personal idiosyncrasies.

    You don't seem able to conceptualize categories as anything but static, one-sided, lifeless, stifling threats to your individuality, and I get pretty tired of hearing you miss the point of personality categorization so spectacularly because your outrageously grandiose ego has you so convinced that you're the only one unique/brilliant/special/perceptive enough to recognize the true of nature of this nefarious conspiracy.

    You have such a ridiculous prophet complex and it's rooted in nothing more than simple narcissism.

    But hey--at least you have a broad vocabulary and you're good stringing words and sentences together in an aesthetically appealing manner. That's gotta count fer somethin', don't it?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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