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Thread: Rhythm

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    Senior Member Jive A Turkey's Avatar
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    Help - Is the Se function responsible for some people's strong sense of rhythm? How can rhythm be improved?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jive A Turkey View Post
    Help - Is the Se function responsible for some people's strong sense of rhythm? How can rhythm be improved?
    I'm not an expert on Se and Si, but it sounds reasonable to me that Se would give someone an edge on having a sense of rhythm.

    As for improving one's rhythm:

    At about age 35, I started getting into Ballroom and Latin dancing. Before that, I never played an instrument, rarely got out on the dance floor, and didn't figure that I had any sense of rhythm. But nowadays my wife and I regularly dance about 20 different dances in Ballroom and Latin.

    Dancing has vastly increased my sense of rhythm. I can pick out a Mambo or Merengue beat, listen to monotonous types of dance music like Disco or Polka and appreciate small variations in rhythm and timing, etc.

    I think there's an Si component to couples dancing or ballroom dancing. Ballroom dancing is often about practicing programmed steps and routines so that they feel right, drawing on accumulated "muscle memory" from having done the steps hundreds of times before. As an INFP, Si would tend to be more accessible to me than Se.

    But that's what works for me. Using dancing, I can translate the rhythm of the music into something tangible--programmed steps, the physical sensation of movement, matching the steps to the different accents of the beat, etc. And that gives me a heightened awareness of rhythm and percussion as a whole.
    Last edited by RDF; 01-10-2008 at 02:56 PM.

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    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    I like Lenore Thomson's interpretation of Se. To paraphrase, once you learn a new dance, you don't continue to go through the sequqence step by step, but get caught up in the moment and allow the music to take over. That way, you begin to improvise. To answer your question, yes Se is used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    I like Lenore Thomson's interpretation of Se. To paraphrase, once you learn a new dance, you don't continue to go through the sequqence step by step, but get caught up in the moment and allow the music to take over. That way, you begin to improvise. To answer your question, yes Se is used.
    Yeah, that's kind of how I figured it, too. Se dancing would presumably be more improvised, more in direct response to the pace and tempo of the music.

    I edited my earlier post slightly to emphasize that Si dancing would be more about dancing with programmed, practiced steps.

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    Hmm...I have a decent sense of rhythm including musical training. I think strong Ne can also help with rhythm, which is basically another way of picking up and forecasting and repeating patterns.

    For dancing, when it comes to picking up steps again I think Ne also can do the trick. I memorize dance sequences pretty well in beginner dance classes -- as in faster/better than most of the class -- I just don't necessarily look good executing them. It's a kinesthetic memory game.

    I think for any type looking at rhythm, whether in dance or musical performance or appreciation -- can approach it as a game you can get better with. You could even try playing the drums in the game 'RockBand' or another rhythm video game. I'm not joking.

    When I first started playing piano we had to do a 'clapping game' and clap out the notes played on the piano. It's a common learning excercise to understand the concept of rhythm and values of notes.

    Rhythm and music video games basically build on this basic concept. You clap, hit, strum along to the whole, half, quarter, eighth, etc. note to the music.

    And/or general practice. Practice helps with everything.

    I think some people when it comes to rhythm will be helped a lot by internally keeping time or even counting out loud. Literally counting, 'ONE two three four, ONE two three four' and still other people will find it easier to have their bodies take over and not think about the count and ignore the teacher when they are counting. For me, I have to ignore the count and just do it and possibly make mistakes because I can't move my body and pay attention to someone speaking and do simple math in my head at once.

    Or listen to a very percussive repeating beat and walk to the beat. Just walk to it. In place. Until you master it. That's what our salsa teacher made us do. She called it 'coordination' and said that was the foundation for dance, specifically salsa.

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    Senior Member Jive A Turkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I think some people when it comes to rhythm will be helped a lot by internally keeping time or even counting out loud. Literally counting, 'ONE two three four, ONE two three four' and still other people will find it easier to have their bodies take over and not think about the count and ignore the teacher when they are counting.
    In the beginning I try to think through a section of music by counting. Music is pretty easy to represent mathematically. This method is especially necessary for me when the rhythm becomes more complex (sixteenth rests can catch me). I prefer to do without the counting if I can.

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    Senior Member Jive A Turkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    For dancing, when it comes to picking up steps again I
    think Ne also can do the trick. I memorize dance sequences pretty well in beginner dance classes -- as in faster/better than most of the class -- I just don't necessarily look good executing them. It's a kinesthetic memory game.
    I space out a lot during music. I thought the N function would be to blame for that one. I start imagining what's next rather than really knowing what's next and my timing consequently suffers.


    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    You could even try playing the drums in the game 'RockBand' or another rhythm video game. I'm not joking.
    I've only tried Guitar Hero and I failed miserably. I'm always way out of time on that guy, a guitar zero.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jive A Turkey View Post
    I space out a lot during music. I thought the N function would be to blame for that one. I start imagining what's next rather than really knowing what's next and my timing consequently suffers.
    You know -- this makes sense now! That's probably why I zip through songs way too fast. I also enjoyed playing and listening to faster songs on the piano, like pianissimo faster songs.

    I think this 'jump the gun' tendency is also related to developing/maturing functions and general maturity too I think. At least for me, I think as I age years wise but also hopefully just wise I'm able to appreciate the beauty of slower, somber melodies and not freak out in anticipation as much. I trust myself to be in the moment just a hair of a second more. So it becomes a little easier for me to keep the correct tempo.

    This also lends itself to why perhaps strong N's can get so swept away by music.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jive A Turkey View Post
    I've only tried Guitar Hero and I failed miserably. I'm always way out of time on that guy, a guitar zero.
    Hee hee.

    Practice makes perfect. Seriously.

    I will out myself as a huge dork. The first few times I played DDR in the arcade (as in, in public, paying my own money) I failed miserably. I didn't even know what it was. But after playing a few times I got the hang of it. At my best I could handle those crazy leg 8 foot difficult 'hard' songs and TOTALLY hold my own with the spry 11 year olds Coked up on too much sugar and soda...not that I would want to. Because dorky girls still have their pride. But I could, and that's the point.

    Rhythm games do help with a lot with your timing but they also have their individual curves. Each particular game makes you slow down and become very conscious of the testing mechanism and when to hit what button, down to probably milliseconds (depending on how sophisticated the game is). That's why it helps with overall rhythm.

    But, each game and controller is different. I think once you get the timing for each beat down on Guitar Hero...on an easy song...it will become second nature to you.

    And once you have one rhythm game down, they all kinda follow. If you've gotten the basic concept of keeping the beat to a visual cue matched to music down.

    I swear, this will only help you with your dancing.

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