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  1. #1
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Default Social Archetypes

    http://www.mythologyoflife.com/files...ypal_roles.pdf

    These were first introduced to me by Lenore Tomson (She doesn't mention them in her book).
    They are different from the John Beebe archetypes, though a few of them have the same names. Mother/Father, plus "Puer", which was renamed "Seeker".
    Anima/Animus are not distinct archetypes here, but rather the relation of one to its contrasexual counterpart. (Mother is the anima of Father, and Father is the animus of Mother). "Shadow" was another single archetype of Jung's, that in Beebe's theory came to be divided into the four archetypes associated with the "unused functions" below the inferior. In this model, the shadow is the same gender archetype opposite of each archetype. The shadow of the Father is the Seeker. This makes sense considering as was stated; "Seeker" was originally the "Puer" (boy child).

    While she does not really believe in Keirsey's temperaments, she believes these sort of parallel them (and thus hence, the temperaments are more social roles than any integral part of personality).

    She had said she was a Mediatrix, and I recognized myself, as far as I understand these, as a Sage. Both of us are NT's, and the descriptions do sound like it. I think she does not hold them fixed to the Keirsey group however, so any type might be any archetype, and it would explain variations in behavior from the typical type expectation.

    One thing I notice, is that in trying the Galen temperament on these, I see a fit between:

    Warrior/Amazon: obviously sounds like Choleric
    Seeker/Companion: fits Sanguine
    Father/Mother: fits Melancholic
    Sage/Mediatrix: other descriptions I have seen for it would possibly fit Phlegmatic.

    These would maintain the shadows as the opposite temperaments (Melancholy as diametric opposite of Sanguine, etc)

    Interesting as Keirsey said the NT was Phlegmatic, but I deduced it as better fitting Choleric with NF as Phlegmatic. But I doubt the Warrior/Amazon would fit NF. I'm not saying it is NT either. It sounds more like the Interaction Style of "In Charge" (EST/ENJ).

    The tables suggest function combinations, with Sage as iNtuition and Thinking sure enough, but Mediatrix as just iNtuition. Most of the others fit general preferences such as "extraverted Judging".

    What I'm thinking, is that if these social archetypes can be any type, then maybe they would correspond to the missing "need area" of Affection from the FIRO/APS system I talk about. So Interaction Styles would be Inclusion, Keirsey temperament would be Control, and these social archetypes would be Affection. That is really a deeper level of social skills.

    It's a longshot, a Sage does seem to parallel my NT preference, with the descriptions of the archetype not sounding like they have anything to do with Affection, which is about deep personal relationships. But since these descriptions are focusing on outside behavior, maybe they do somewhow stem from Affection, which is described by one FIRO expert as the deepest level of our personality. (Though they believed the score groups could change; go figure).
    I'm Supine in Affection (which I usually pair with Phlegmatic in the four-to-five temperament correlations), and I could see Lenore as being similar in that area. Hence, both NT and Sage/Mediatrix.

    But I'm still not sure. Just what I'm looking into now.

    So has anyone else heard of these? Do they fit the Keirsey group for you? For those who have participated in the Inclusion/Control/Affection discussion here, do they match Affection for you? Or something else?
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  2. #2
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    In order from most to least, I relate to Mediatrix (I have a narrow focus, though), Mother (the archetypal role is amazingly spot-on for how I deal with loved ones), Sage, and Seeker. I don't know how that fits into what you're asking, other than it would probably make me Phlegmatic-Melancholy, which is pretty accurate.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  3. #3
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Mediatrix and Mother are for females only, and Sage and Seeker are for males. (Sage is the male counterpart to or "animus" of Mediatrix). So you cannot rank all of those together like that.

    I'm looking into them fitting the area of Affection, which would be a third temperament area besides the "Phlegmatic-Melancholy" type combos. Still not sure about this at all; just a side idea I am trying out.
    Last edited by Eric B; 08-03-2010 at 12:01 PM.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  4. #4
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Mediatrix and Mother are for females only, and Sage and Seeker are for males. (Sage is the male counterpart to or "animus" of Mediatrix). So you not rank all of those together like that.
    Then the social archetypes don't work for me, because I'm a male and that's the order in which I relate to those descriptions.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  5. #5
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    It's really not about ranking at all, anyway.
    If Sage fits best of the male archetypes, then that is probably what you are. (And that does make sense for you).

    So if true, then Sage does not match NT (since you're going by NF now), yet in ICA, you did put Phlegmatic-Supine or Supine-Phlegmatic, which would fit my latest proposal.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  6. #6
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    I'm probably a companion, but I'm having a hard time understanding what it means by "mirroring another's potential."
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  7. #7
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    It's really not about ranking at all, anyway.
    If Sage fits best of the male archetypes, then that is probably what you are. (And that does make sense for you).

    So if true, then Sage does not match NT (since you're going by NF now), yet in ICA, you did put Phlegmatic-Supine or Supine-Phlegmatic, which would fit my latest proposal.
    I'm really not a logical person, although I try (with varying degrees of success) to translate myself into logic so that other people can understand me. The place where I feel most at home is with the irrational and mysterious, and that runs counter to the description given for Sage, which has Mediatrix as its Anima.

    Basically, I have a description--Mediatrix--that fits me, but the rules you're going by forbid me to wear it because of a gender label that was arbitrarily stamped on it.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  8. #8
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    I'm probably a sage -- though rather closely in touch with my warrior shadow.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Teacher (Idyllic), ESE-IEI (Si-ESFj), SLue|I|, Sanguine-Melancholy
    Sage, True Neutral (Chaotic Good), Type III Anti-Hero
    Inventive > Artistic > Leisurely > Dramatic
    7w6 > 4w3 > 9w8, weakside sp/so

    Dark Worker (Sacrificing)
    Freewheeling Designer

    Hayekian Asshole


  9. #9
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Man; it looks like everybody is selecting an opposite gender archetype! (=FAIL! Assuming Aleksei is female. Sorry if that's wrong).
    Well; I'm new to these myself, and can't explain why this is happening. Maybe it's off the wall. Was just looking into them.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  10. #10
    Controlled Mischief StephMC's Avatar
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    Hah... yeah, cuz I relate to the Seeker the most, then Mediatrix. While I don't know a whole lot about this particular theory, I can't imagine it's all that unfathomable that a T female has a "male" result or a F male has a "female" result.
    I have an inner monologue that sounds strikingly similar to something off Animal Planet.

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