• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Social Archetypes

Eric B

ⒺⓉⒷ
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
3,621
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
548
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
http://www.mythologyoflife.com/files/archetypal_roles.pdf

These were first introduced to me by Lenore Tomson (She doesn't mention them in her book).
They are different from the John Beebe archetypes, though a few of them have the same names. Mother/Father, plus "Puer", which was renamed "Seeker".
Anima/Animus are not distinct archetypes here, but rather the relation of one to its contrasexual counterpart. (Mother is the anima of Father, and Father is the animus of Mother). "Shadow" was another single archetype of Jung's, that in Beebe's theory came to be divided into the four archetypes associated with the "unused functions" below the inferior. In this model, the shadow is the same gender archetype opposite of each archetype. The shadow of the Father is the Seeker. This makes sense considering as was stated; "Seeker" was originally the "Puer" (boy child).

While she does not really believe in Keirsey's temperaments, she believes these sort of parallel them (and thus hence, the temperaments are more social roles than any integral part of personality).

She had said she was a Mediatrix, and I recognized myself, as far as I understand these, as a Sage. Both of us are NT's, and the descriptions do sound like it. I think she does not hold them fixed to the Keirsey group however, so any type might be any archetype, and it would explain variations in behavior from the typical type expectation.

One thing I notice, is that in trying the Galen temperament on these, I see a fit between:

Warrior/Amazon: obviously sounds like Choleric
Seeker/Companion: fits Sanguine
Father/Mother: fits Melancholic
Sage/Mediatrix: other descriptions I have seen for it would possibly fit Phlegmatic.

These would maintain the shadows as the opposite temperaments (Melancholy as diametric opposite of Sanguine, etc)

Interesting as Keirsey said the NT was Phlegmatic, but I deduced it as better fitting Choleric with NF as Phlegmatic. But I doubt the Warrior/Amazon would fit NF. I'm not saying it is NT either. It sounds more like the Interaction Style of "In Charge" (EST/ENJ).

The tables suggest function combinations, with Sage as iNtuition and Thinking sure enough, but Mediatrix as just iNtuition. Most of the others fit general preferences such as "extraverted Judging".

What I'm thinking, is that if these social archetypes can be any type, then maybe they would correspond to the missing "need area" of Affection from the FIRO/APS system I talk about. So Interaction Styles would be Inclusion, Keirsey temperament would be Control, and these social archetypes would be Affection. That is really a deeper level of social skills.

It's a longshot, a Sage does seem to parallel my NT preference, with the descriptions of the archetype not sounding like they have anything to do with Affection, which is about deep personal relationships. But since these descriptions are focusing on outside behavior, maybe they do somewhow stem from Affection, which is described by one FIRO expert as the deepest level of our personality. (Though they believed the score groups could change; go figure).
I'm Supine in Affection (which I usually pair with Phlegmatic in the four-to-five temperament correlations), and I could see Lenore as being similar in that area. Hence, both NT and Sage/Mediatrix.

But I'm still not sure. Just what I'm looking into now.

So has anyone else heard of these? Do they fit the Keirsey group for you? For those who have participated in the Inclusion/Control/Affection discussion here, do they match Affection for you? Or something else?
 

Polaris

AKA Nunki
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
2,529
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
451
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
In order from most to least, I relate to Mediatrix (I have a narrow focus, though), Mother (the archetypal role is amazingly spot-on for how I deal with loved ones), Sage, and Seeker. I don't know how that fits into what you're asking, other than it would probably make me Phlegmatic-Melancholy, which is pretty accurate.
 

Eric B

ⒺⓉⒷ
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
3,621
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
548
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Mediatrix and Mother are for females only, and Sage and Seeker are for males. (Sage is the male counterpart to or "animus" of Mediatrix). So you cannot rank all of those together like that.

I'm looking into them fitting the area of Affection, which would be a third temperament area besides the "Phlegmatic-Melancholy" type combos. Still not sure about this at all; just a side idea I am trying out.
 
Last edited:

Polaris

AKA Nunki
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
2,529
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
451
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Mediatrix and Mother are for females only, and Sage and Seeker are for males. (Sage is the male counterpart to or "animus" of Mediatrix). So you not rank all of those together like that.
Then the social archetypes don't work for me, because I'm a male and that's the order in which I relate to those descriptions.
 

Eric B

ⒺⓉⒷ
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
3,621
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
548
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
It's really not about ranking at all, anyway.
If Sage fits best of the male archetypes, then that is probably what you are. (And that does make sense for you).

So if true, then Sage does not match NT (since you're going by NF now), yet in ICA, you did put Phlegmatic-Supine or Supine-Phlegmatic, which would fit my latest proposal.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'm probably a companion, but I'm having a hard time understanding what it means by "mirroring another's potential."
 

Polaris

AKA Nunki
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
2,529
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
451
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
It's really not about ranking at all, anyway.
If Sage fits best of the male archetypes, then that is probably what you are. (And that does make sense for you).

So if true, then Sage does not match NT (since you're going by NF now), yet in ICA, you did put Phlegmatic-Supine or Supine-Phlegmatic, which would fit my latest proposal.
I'm really not a logical person, although I try (with varying degrees of success) to translate myself into logic so that other people can understand me. The place where I feel most at home is with the irrational and mysterious, and that runs counter to the description given for Sage, which has Mediatrix as its Anima.

Basically, I have a description--Mediatrix--that fits me, but the rules you're going by forbid me to wear it because of a gender label that was arbitrarily stamped on it.
 

Aleksei

Yeah, I can fly.
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
3,626
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'm probably a sage -- though rather closely in touch with my warrior shadow.
 

Eric B

ⒺⓉⒷ
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
3,621
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
548
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Man; it looks like everybody is selecting an opposite gender archetype! (=FAIL! Assuming Aleksei is female. Sorry if that's wrong).
Well; I'm new to these myself, and can't explain why this is happening. Maybe it's off the wall. Was just looking into them.
 

StephMC

Controlled Mischief
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
1,044
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Hah... yeah, cuz I relate to the Seeker the most, then Mediatrix. While I don't know a whole lot about this particular theory, I can't imagine it's all that unfathomable that a T female has a "male" result or a F male has a "female" result.
 

Wonkavision

Retired Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
1,154
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w8
Seeker, for sure.


I'm probably a companion, but I'm having a hard time understanding what it means by "mirroring another's potential."

Yeah, I don't understand what "mirroring" is either.

Can anyone explain?
 

Chloe

New member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
2,196
^mirroring is a term in psychoanalysis when parent is looking at child and reflects with appreciation child's atributes, and needs. that way child gets sense for Self because his self is acknowledged. You know, a spark in parents eye is what child sees...

Wikipedia about Kohut said:
Kohut's book The Analysis of the Self: A Systematic Analysis of the Treatment of the Narcissistic Personality Disorders [3] "had a significant impact on the field by extending Freud's theory of narcissism and introducing what Kohut called the 'self-object transferences' of mirroring and idealization." In other words, children need to idealize and emotionally "sink into" and identify with the idealized competence of admired figures. They also need to have their self-worth reflected back ("mirrored") by empathic and caregiving others. These experiences allow them to thereby learn the self-soothing and other skills that are necessary for the development of a healthy (cohesive, vigorous) sense of self.

the same some people do to others, draw their potential out, which makes them good conselours...NFs mostly.
 

Aleksei

Yeah, I can fly.
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
3,626
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
(=FAIL! Assuming Aleksei is female. Sorry if that's wrong).
eh.gif


Do I look female to you?
 

sculpting

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
4,148
I'm probably a companion, but I'm having a hard time understanding what it means by "mirroring another's potential."

companion, then seeker.

BC, this is .... to see the promise in them and then try and show it to them... You mold yourself around them to fit their needs in order to allow them maximal room for positive growth. It fits the enfp chameleon description very well.
 

Aleksei

Yeah, I can fly.
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
3,626
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I thought you were that hot chick in your sig.....Is that you in your avi?
:laugh: no, that's the Ninth Doctor (played by Christopher Eccleston). This is my handsome mug. :smoke:

0ff119df.jpg
 

Eric B

ⒺⓉⒷ
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
3,621
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
548
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
eh.gif


Do I look female to you?

I'm used to seeing that signature picture of yours (which IIRC, you've had up longer than the avatar you're using now). So I wasn't sure.
 
Top