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  1. #11
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Thanks for answers. Maybe I didn't explain in a good way; it's not only their opinion, it's their actions from past. For example, I have an aunt who is liked by whole family, but she used to come to our house regularly and say that "all Serbians should be killed" in front of my mom, and then my mom started to debate with her does she think my mom deserves to die blahblah and managed to shut up my aunt, but each next time she comes she continues with old stuff. And if I ever try to say anything against this aunt I'd only be called uncaring bc they are oblivious to this other perspective of not hating. Its like this with most people and situations. Thing is, I dont care is it possible to change their mind, they are already morons, no way to completely change their minds that's obvious. I just dont know how to act.. because I get mixed feelings/memories of some people being really nuts and nationalists so I cant view them with respect at all. That's very close family I am talking about.
    My initial instinct is idealistic and to convince everyone out of such views, but again I hold grudges..and their minds cant be changed. After that my instinct is to be direct, but that way I'd only make way too many enemies.
    Thing is my mom and sister dont mind socializing with them superficially and ignoring who they really are, but I do mind until i resolved it all.

    Maybe as someone suggested I should talk one on one with some of them and say what I think...


    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar
    I try and not bring up the issue of race with them.

    If they bring it up or related segue generally I will try and change the subject or eject myself from listening distance.
    But dont know what do you get then from such relationship?

  2. #12
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    My many of extended family are at least a little racist. Its mostly 'racist in theory' where they talk shit here and there but wouldn't actually say or do nasty things to somebody's face. I really dislike it but realize there's no point in taking them on. I mostly squirm silently, roll my eyes or say "come on...". I probably should stand up to them but it would do much more than make me feel better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chloee View Post
    Thanks for answers. Maybe I didn't explain in a good way; it's not only their opinion, it's their actions from past. For example, I have an aunt who is liked by whole family, but she used to come to our house regularly and say that "all Serbians should be killed" in front of my mom, and then my mom started to debate with her does she think my mom deserves to die blahblah and managed to shut up my aunt, but each next time she comes she continues with old stuff. And if I ever try to say anything against this aunt I'd only be called uncaring bc they are oblivious to this other perspective of not hating. Its like this with most people and situations. Thing is, I dont care is it possible to change their mind, they are already morons, no way to completely change their minds that's obvious. I just dont know how to act.. because I get mixed feelings/memories of some people being really nuts and nationalists so I cant view them with respect at all. That's very close family I am talking about.
    My initial instinct is idealistic and to convince everyone out of such views, but again I hold grudges..and their minds cant be changed. After that my instinct is to be direct, but that way I'd only make way too many enemies.
    Thing is my mom and sister dont mind socializing with them superficially and ignoring who they really are, but I do mind until i resolved it all.

    Maybe as someone suggested I should talk one on one with some of them and say what I think...




    But dont know what do you get then from such relationship?
    Your situation is on a whole other level. I can imagine this is pretty hard on you . It must be tough when your beliefs go against your family's. I know racism in parts of Europe hate for particular ethnic groups is so engrained after centuries of conflict and is extremely difficult to change. I don't think you should feel obligated to stand up to them at all times. You'll probably have to let most of it go and certainly no one would blame you for doing so. They are your family so it can be pretty tiring fighting them constantly.

    I doubt any advice I could offer would really help but I have one suggestion. If you get sick of their ranting one day or they they say something rather unpleasant in front of your mother, tell them bluntly you take offence to them speaking about your mother that way. That way its not just any Serbian they are taking on it is your mother, and therefore, they are attacking you also. It might make them see that they hurt you with their talk. This is actually a Dr Phil thing ( I know ) - one day his son way berating his mother and Dr. Phil turned around and said, "Don't talk to my wife like that!". This really shook his son because he basically forgot that his mother meant anything to anyone else. Simply saying 'my wife' instead of 'your mother' was enough to make him think twice.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    To be honest as time has gone on I've moved away from more simplistic "They are all evil", "No platform for haters" etc. To be frank I find it appalling but I dont either lend it any power or special status by allowing it to become a focus, hate is a strong emotion like love and if you hate something you are thinking about it a lot more than perhaps it deserves.

    I think that ethno-cultural and ethno-nationalist conflicts are one of those things its stupid and even dangerous to ignore, with the collapse of secular communism in 1989 there where a rash of ancient grievances erupting into open warfare, atrocity and attempted genocide. I'll never forget some of the things I've read about Bosnia, the Balkans and the collapse of Yugoslavia. Seriously my senaptic pathways have been scarred with some of the pictures I've seen or material I've read.

    When the mild mannered neighbour three doors down suddenly has the opportunity to kill all his neighbours with a saw from the garage and takes it you need to think about the importance of ethnicity whether you think its important or not. In condemning abstract racism or politicised gangs or racialised ideologies too many people go too far and dismiss the whole thing altogether as unimportant.

    That's a serious mistake, to anyone who is racist, whether its a simplistic grudge or a complicated ideologically motivated idea with people labelled race traitors and stuff like that, they arent going to care whether you are racist or not if you are part of their particular "out group". I think of the shock that liberal or middle class white people experience if they are subject to racist abuse or assault, these instances are seriously exploited by ideological racists too.

    I also think there has been a much greater concentration on types of racism, particularly white racism, there are other varieties, Hutus and Tutsis where both black but the ethnic conflict between them resulted in genocidal atrocity (I accept that this was in part a legacy of colonialism and divide and conquer but I simply think so what?). There has been a lot of black on Asian crime and racism in some parts of the UK which easily fits the frame of racism but isnt usually considered in that fashion. Part of the reason is that not many varieties of racism have risen to the level of a state ideology and precursor to complete world war, I accept that there's a powerful legacy there and memory consequently makes people take notice when anything associated with it reappears. So instantly swastikas and order of the dawn salutes strike a cord which other things dont.

    In my friends I discourage it, on the basis that I think its bad manners more than politically incorrect, if its a serious or intellectual topic I'll debate it, I think most things should be up for discussion with few exceptions (rationalisations for peadophilia and psychopathy are examples of two things I'll not discuss, in the process of doing so you lend credibility and credience to what is perhaps a very sick minds attempt to breakdown inhibitions to criminal behaviour). As always I'm tuned into the possibility of violence too, small minds, small thoughts and quick tempers, got to be wary of those sorts of people whatever the groupthink they got going is.

  4. #14
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    What a tough topic here!
    It's even stranger with Chinese (because I am a Chinese too).
    They always say they don't discriminate against other races.
    But they give labels to whoever-is-not-a-Chinese. Gosh, this is even more racist than racism itself. And it's really hypocritic of them.

  5. #15
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    my grandfather likes to hate on people who are different verbally, but always ends up getting his mind changed when he meets someone of the different group

    somehow the idea of being conservative didn't end up influencing his grandchildren in the least, so he is continually bombarded with a variety of minority friends and signifigant others at family events and he's found out that they're pretty much the same as him, so he's dropped his prejudices... that and he worked with some minorities on his last job and he's still friends with them... basically, being exposed to people from different races ended up convincing him that people are just people

    of course I hear plenty of innocent joking among friends of varied races (like "girl, you blend into the wall! come stand next to me and eat some of this chicken in hopes of darkening up a bit!" or "don't go out in the rain! everyone knows that wet white people smell like wet dogs!") which could be taken quite wrong by a concerned listener

    I'm not sure what to do in your family's situation... it doesn't sound like exposure works with them unfortunatly
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  6. #16
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    my grandfather was incredibly racist. He would scream profanities at the people who lived in his neighborhood-mostly first generation mexican immigrants. He also hated african americans and asians. He was a real jewel.

    My brother picked some of this up as well, but grew to realize in high school how messed up it was.

    You cant change these people. For the older generation, their mindsets were developed when very young, so i would just ignore them unless they are overtly hurting others around them-then I would request not to do this in your presence. If it just family convos, I would suggest ignoring it.

    For people who are younger-you can actively influence them through peer pressure. Kinda like my brother, just by having others point out how they are acting like a douche, will cause them to at least stop externalizing the behavior out of shame or fear of social rebuke. To change internally, I think the best thing is for someone to be around positive examples of the group they are being derogatory about.

    However the situation is eastern europe may be very different given some of the enthnic conflicts are very recent and have resulted in much pain and heartbreak on many sides. Out of the pain, often comes hate.

    (On a side note, the grandfather is dead, my sister has a half hispanic daughter and a half african american daughter, and my kids are half hispanic-italian. We got the last laugh on the old bastard.)

  7. #17
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Granted America is a bit unique, and our diveristy is much greater than that in your country, I can only account for my experiences as an American.

    It's more disappointing to me when I see it occur. Do I have friends and family that are racist? You bet your ass I do. I consider it a character flaw.. and I cannot stand things that produce so much pain and hatred from something so insignificant. But at the same time.. shunning people away for their ignorance leaves them ignorant. I wait, bide my time, and try my best to do as Bamboo said--to teach them that this just isn't a logical way of thinking. My family knows how I feel on the issue though.

    It becomes difficult when you come across people scared of an entire race based on experience. I had a friend who lived in a harsh part of town growing up, scared for his life because he was the 'white' kid, and then had his future wife taken from him by the same race. I can see it being difficult for him to bother trying to distinguish who's good from who's bad when it's easier to avoid the entire race altogether.

    Is that a noble way of thinking? Not at all.. but noble isn't really in everyone's vocabulary, especially when you're in survival mode like that. I'm not quite sure how to handle or approach things when they're that way.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    A friend of mine is a racist, I act around him the same way I act around any other friend. It's not a big deal, everyone's entitled to their opinions.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    A white man can call a black man rascist!
    Yes, I can. And I did. He was a flaming racist, ranting about white, rich, people.
    I decided to do something he would never forget.
    I got up in his face and said:

    "I am you. You are me."

    That is how you silence a ranting racist - at least on that day.
    He never uttered another word.

  10. #20
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    You, my friend, are one tough cookie.

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