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Changing someone else's attitude

Kasper

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Give me all the possible ways to deal with someone who is a habitual whiner, the kind who constantly complains about other people's achievements, other people's failures and especially other people's complaints.

Avoidance isn't an option and making things worse isn't ideal in the slightest.

I want to metaphorically slap them so they change their attitude, is that even remotely possible? And how could it be attempted? How would you attempt it?
 

Oaky

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Pat them on the head every time they whine about something. Say it's going to be ok.
 

Thalassa

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Pat them on the head every time they whine about something. Say it's going to be ok.

Petting has not been proven scientifically to work. I am still conducting experiments, and I've found them disappointing.
 

Thalassa

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Oh...and to the OP...expose said whiner to people with real problems. Hell, put the whiner in a horrible situation so they'll appreciate what they usually have.

I think that's the best solution, personally.
 

Rebe

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1) encourage their self-esteem so they will begin to see the good in themselves and thus, the good in others, but that's a very active stance, might require you faking a bit, or a lot depending on if you actually like the person at all

I have a friend who complains and whines and supposedly, I could help by encouraging her and complimenting her good qualities, 'coddle' her, but I can't do that, don't do that naturally. I can only offer logical solutions as to how to resolve her problems, but none of this verbal hugging that my Fe friends can do. And I appreciate it from them, but it's not one of my skills. I can show sympathy to a degree, but the whole thing is frustrating.

2) when they talk, just zone out. if s/he is not important to you, is not a friend or part of your social circle, there's no need to dig into their business. don't let any of it bug it. just nod or pretend to be busy. be there but don't draw all of that mess inside yourself. is that avoidance? that's a more low-key, don't stir the boat stance.

3) The other thing is riskier than both. You can lay it out there on them. This could make things worse, but I don't see any other options. It's either coddling, ignore or Te-slap their face. Tell them that they have a negative attitude, blaming others for own problems, being a *ussy instead of a go-getter ... etc.
 

Oaky

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Petting has not been proven scientifically to work. I am still conducting experiments, and I've found them disappointing.
Hmmm. I see. I've never tried it before so I wouldn't know. There are other options. Like trying to get them to appeal to be more wise and patient if they value it at all of course...
 

Lady_X

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um...say stop defining yourself by others...who gives a f@ck!?? everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses and the goal isn't to beat everyone according to their strengths...find your own and rock it...do you...screw everyone else!

and...i don't wanna hear it anymore...it pisses me off because i like you and value you in this and that way and it frustrates the hell out of me that you can't see it!
 

prplchknz

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i had a friend like this, i moved away i roll my eyes when i see her facebook statuses. i haven't figured out how to get her to stop complainng i've known her since middle school so....basically you're fucked. no offense.
 

Kasper

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no offense.

None taken, you're likely right. It's someone I've worked with for quite a number of years, they're some kind of mixture of being unaware of how negative they are and having a strong sense of entitlement about their complaints. Lovely person, but that trait grates on me, I crave being around positivity, it's what I need to enjoy myself and be productive and happy.

I'm willing to put in effort, just hoping some of the ideas people raise are at least worth attempting to see the impact. I know I can affect their mood but it takes a fair bit of effort and doesn't always work so I'm looking for more skills.

Never know what results brainz-storming will produce.

Rebe touched on one area that could be focused on, they can seem pretty self assured but often actually aren't.
 

prplchknz

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exactly, that's how it is with my friend. she's one of my best friends but her negativity is like OMG!!! WOMAN SHUT UP!!!!!people are worse off then the both of us.I mean complaining is fine once in awhile, but complain non stop and never do shit about it, bugs me.
 

Lady_X

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oh...my response was for a close friend...hmm...i would say the same thing a lot nicer haha...maybe be a bit more encouraging.
 

Flutterby

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What type are they?

I used to complain sometimes about little things because it was easier than dealing with my big huge problems. Also, sometimes people are just projecting, they hate most about others what they hate most about themselves. I think I could think of two possible reasons why they are complaining about other people all the time:

1. They don't like being around people and don't realise that it's okay to find ways to get more alone time and less being with people time. This can be huge for some introverts who don't know what introversion is and don't understand why they can't be like their extrovert friends. Sometimes even if you do know what introversion is you don't realise quite *how* introverted you are, until one day you just realise you can't stand to have people around you for more than so many hours per day.

2. They actually care a lot about the people they are complaining about, and genuinely want them to be better but don't know how to help them to change. Or maybe they think telling people what they're so bad at will help them, but it probably won't because people will react emotionally rather than logically.

The only other thing coming to mind is one person I know, they react to *everything* emotionally. It's always they feel this, so and so must feel that, feelings, feelings, feelings. I know it's too overwhelming for them to deal with the world if they don't show their feelings all over the place, but I've had to cut back on the amount of time I am around them. They're also extroverted so if they start talking about stuff I don't care about I just say yes, yes, yes and eventually they stop talking. (I know that sounds horrible, but I've tried to explain to them that I don't care about these things in the past and they were very hurt, plus since then I've realised that they *need* to talk so I just let them.)
 

Kasper

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What type are they?

ISTJ, Enneagram 1.

Level 4, 5 and 6 on enneagram institute covers them most of the time, my issue is when they're here:

"Highly critical both of self and others: picky, judgmental, perfectionistic. Very opinionated about everything: correcting people and badgering them to "do the right thing"—as they see it. Impatient, never satisfied with anything unless it is done according to their prescriptions. Moralizing, scolding, abrasive, and indignantly angry."

1 - Enneagram Type One: The Reformer

They have a very strong sense of what is right and wrong, which is fine, they know where they want to be in life, which is admirable, but they set their expectations as universal, their standards as the only ones that count.
 

Flutterby

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Ahhh. What happens if you tell them they're a perfectionist?

Maybe just tell them what you're really thinking? IE. I admire your morals, your drive and your ambition, but I think it's unrealistic to expect everyone to live up to your standards.
 

Synapse

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Creating a new set of boundaries and implementing them for more than a month without backing down. Its near impossible unless you change their health and life style first!
 

Moonstone3

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Not possible. Yep, you will be screwed if you continue listening. My boss's wife is this person, constantly complaining about him. Then, little did I know, she was throwing my name around that I agreed with her. Malarkey!!! I was furious! Just because I listen, doesn't mean I say yes. Eventually, my character was compromised and I told on her airing out her dirty laundry to me every second of everyday. I didn't give my boss details, but told him I knew more about shit I could care less about him than he would ever know.
These people are insecure. They want to have people on their side, to help them feel like they are not blowing it out of proportion and are just in their complaints. I know, I was there for a few short months. I came to realize it was pointless. I need to find my own answers and comfort.
This woman doesn't talk to me anymore, and what a relief! Of course she's worn out her other friends bouncing around to see who will agree with her. Eventually, she'll only have herself to listen to. Then she won't feel the need to 'build a team.' She will be her team.
Disagree, then tell this person she is the only person that can answer her questions and it's up to her to decide what she thinks on a situation. Leave her in the dirt, so she can pick herself up. It is the only way she came climb out of the rubble-and stay there.
 

Flutterby

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I think your friend is projecting very heavily because *she* feels she has to be perfect, so she resents it very strongly when other people don't at least *try* to be perfect.

I don't know that you can solve that emotional issue for her, but maybe you could engineer a way for her to feel safe if you lowered her usual standards. (I'm not saying this applies to everyone who is like this, just the fact that you are saying she is complaining an overwhelming amount, may be a sign that she really feels afraid no one will love her if she's not perfect.)

I guess the other option is to turn it around: X I need to talk to you. I feel that your indirect passive aggressive complaints are very unprofessional. I'd like it if you could keep your opinions to yourself in future and confront people directly whenever you have a problem with them.

Depends how much you like her and how much you want to mess her up.
 

21%

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1) encourage their self-esteem so they will begin to see the good in themselves and thus, the good in others, but that's a very active stance, might require you faking a bit, or a lot depending on if you actually like the person at all

I have a friend who complains and whines and supposedly, I could help by encouraging her and complimenting her good qualities, 'coddle' her, but I can't do that, don't do that naturally. I can only offer logical solutions as to how to resolve her problems, but none of this verbal hugging that my Fe friends can do. And I appreciate it from them, but it's not one of my skills. I can show sympathy to a degree, but the whole thing is frustrating.

2) when they talk, just zone out. if s/he is not important to you, is not a friend or part of your social circle, there's no need to dig into their business. don't let any of it bug it. just nod or pretend to be busy. be there but don't draw all of that mess inside yourself. is that avoidance? that's a more low-key, don't stir the boat stance.

3) The other thing is riskier than both. You can lay it out there on them. This could make things worse, but I don't see any other options. It's either coddling, ignore or Te-slap their face. Tell them that they have a negative attitude, blaming others for own problems, being a *ussy instead of a go-getter ... etc.

I like that suggestion :yes:

I know what it feels like. I lived with a person who constantly complained about everything for a year. At first I tried to be supportive and told her everything was going to be better in the future and she would be successful and stuff (not flattery, just encouragement), and she argued against every positive thing I said. I stressed out and tried to be even more supportive and understanding. It didn't work. In the end, I realized that she liked to see herself as a victim of life. Nothing was ever her fault. After that, I just went along with what she said and tuned out a lot, and my life quality significantly improved.

Someone on the board posted this link a while ago, and when I read it I was like "This was my situation!":
Karpman drama triangle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Kasper

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Ahhh. What happens if you tell them they're a perfectionist?

Maybe just tell them what you're really thinking? IE. I admire your morals, your drive and your ambition, but I think it's unrealistic to expect everyone to live up to your standards.

They know they're anal in certain areas, but because it's within their standards they see it as a positive thing.

I like you idea but I mostly feel unable to raise the topic without them feeling as though I'm attacking them personally and harshly. I expect things would be better if we ignore the negative stuff and I attempt to influence more positive things.

Creating a new set of boundaries and implementing them for more than a month without backing down. Its near impossible unless you change their health and life style first!

That has worked in the past, like that approach.

I think your friend is projecting very heavily because *she* feels she has to be perfect, so she resents it very strongly when other people don't at least *try* to be perfect.

I agree, her personal standards are high, and she expects others to meet them.

Depends how much you like her and how much you want to mess her up.

Like her enough, definitely don't want to mess her up.
 
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