Jealousy: It shows you care

[Lauren Ashley]

When would jealousy reflect a concern for someone else over the self?

What I meant was: jealousy doesn't have to solely be about self, as you claimed it was. It could be a concern for the relationship itself, for example, which would involve both parties.

 

[Thalassa]

That's like saying pain is good because it's an indication that you're still alive. Maybe. But a pain-free existence >>> a painful one.

Some people find a bit of pain sexually exciting.

Let's not be hating on the S/M or B/D community.

 

[ReadingRainbows]

Jealousy is a self esteem issue. This is comming from someone who has trust issues in general. Usually - If I feel any anxiety about trusting who I am with, 99.9% something is not going well. In completely open and honest relationships, there is nothing to distrust, and if you are seeing red flags, that needs to be dealt with or the relationship ended.
Life is to short to hurt yourself.
Jealousy hurts you.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Jealousy is a self esteem issue. This is comming from someone who has trust issues in general. Usually - If I feel any anxiety about trusting who I am with, 99.9% something is not going well. In completely open and honest relationships, there is nothing to distrust, and if you are seeing red flags, that needs to be dealt with or the relationship ended.
Life is to short to hurt yourself.
Jealousy hurts you.

Jealousy isn't all about mere suspicion. A person might feel jealous if they knew for a fact that their spouse was having an affair with someone else.

 

[Thalassa]

Jealousy is a self esteem issue. This is comming from someone who has trust issues in general. Usually - If I feel any anxiety about trusting who I am with, 99.9% something is not going well. In completely open and honest relationships, there is nothing to distrust, and if you are seeing red flags, that needs to be dealt with or the relationship ended.
Life is to short to hurt yourself.
Jealousy hurts you.

Some people like playing games though.

You guys probably think I'm NUTS but all of this talk about ending relationships over jealousy and stuff just sounds incredibly vanilla and boring to me. I think I'm sort of a psychological sado-masochist. I don't know.

No offense. I just think people have different needs, and a different capacity for tolerating jealousy, and people want different things from a relationship. I mean if you're that tortured by someone and aren't enjoying it, then clearly the relationship should end.

 

[Thalassa]

Jealousy isn't all about mere suspicion. A person might feel jealous if they knew for a fact that their spouse was having an affair with someone else.

This is true, too. Sometimes strong jealousy is an instinct that something is actually wrong.

 

[Salomé]

Love is a word that has so many meanings that there is a high risk of equivocation. I'm pretty sure that the topic here is about so-called romantic love. Love for family is different, and in fact very different, and perhaps people only assume it is as related as they do because we happen to use the same word for it.

A pain-free existence is also impossible, so the analogy works in that way, too.

That'll be why you're equivocating then.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

No offense. I just think people have different needs, and a different capacity for tolerating jealousy, and people want different things from a relationship.

I agree with this. I guess its in vogue to deride jealousy and possessiveness as immature or unhealthy, but what's healthy is very subjective and depends on the person and their needs. I wouldn't say a person who never jealous or possessive is necessarily unhealthy, but many seem to think that branding the reverse as unhealthy is a fair and accurate depiction.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

That'll be why you're equivocating then.

I made the mistake of assuming that we were going by the same definition. I have defined what I mean by love now, at least somewhat, and I believe you know what I mean.

I stand by my previous comments.

 

[Tallulah]

Some people like playing games though.

You guys probably think I'm NUTS but all of this talk about ending relationships over jealousy and stuff just sounds incredibly vanilla and boring to me. I think I'm sort of a psychological sado-masochist. I don't know.

No offense. I just think people have different needs, and a different capacity for tolerating jealousy, and people want different things from a relationship. I mean if you're that tortured by someone and aren't enjoying it, then clearly the relationship should end.

I think you're right about that...and I think a lot of NTs have zero tolerance for it because it adds unnecessary drama to the relationship. And because we feel like once we've proved we're trustworthy, we shouldn't have to keep proving it. I do like a teensy bit of it, though--and I do mean small--just to remind me I'm alive, or to remind me he cares and wants to keep me around. However, an SO that was constantly questioning me about guys that talked to me would not be an SO for very long. I play in clubs and have guys trying to chat me up all the time. I think there's a line there. The trust has to be there.

 

[Salomé]

I made the mistake of assuming that we were going by the same definition. I have defined what I mean by love now, at least somewhat, and I believe you know what I mean.

There is no standard definition of love that says it's impossible without jealousy. That's just your interpretation. For some reason you think that romantic love without jealousy is undesirable. Maybe you'll change your mind once you begin a relationship.

 

[Thalassa]

There is no standard definition of love that says it's impossible without jealousy. That's just your interpretation. For some reason you think that romantic love without jealousy is undesirable. Maybe you'll change your mind once you begin a relationship.

Or maybe he won't.

I actually was very unhappy in a relationship where the guy I was with lacked expressions of jealousy, and passive to a point that it turned me off.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

There is no standard definition of love that says it's impossible without jealousy. That's just your interpretation. For some reason you think that romantic love without jealousy is undesirable. Maybe you'll change your mind once you begin a relationship.

A lack of jealousy pretty much indicates a lack of vested interest.

Wouldn't being completely devoid of jealousy mean that you care not how much interest a person devotes in someone other than you, how much they share with that person, and what they do with that person? I think having no jealousy would mean not even being bothered if you parter had sex with other people, or shared personal information that they wouldn't with you, or preferer spending time with others, etc.. I think if you have absolutely no jealousy in a relationhip, then you value it as much as you do your relationship with any stranger.

 

[Thalassa]

A lack of jealousy pretty much indicates a lack of vested interest.

Wouldn't being completely devoid of jealousy mean that you care not how much interest a person devotes in someone other than you, how much they share with that person, and what they do with that person? I think having no jealousy would mean not even being bothered if you parter had sex with other people, or shared personal information that they wouldn't with you, or preferer spending time with others, etc.. I think if you have absolutely no jealousy in a relationhip, then you value it as much as you do your relationship with any stranger.

Yeah! It seems almost like a doormat quality if it's not apathetic. Both traits - extreme passivity and apathy - turn me off.

 

[Ivy]

None of that turns out to be accurate, though.

I don't think my husband gets jealous. He just seems to consider it a waste of emotional energy- either two people have agreed that they are together and staying that way, or not, and if they have, then jealousy would mean a lack of trust. He's actually quite passionate though, and a deeply devoted partner.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

None of that turns out to be accurate, though.

I don't think my husband gets jealous. He just seems to consider it a waste of emotional energy- either two people have agreed that they are together and staying that way, or not, and if they have, then jealousy would mean a lack of trust. He's actually quite passionate though, and a deeply devoted partner.

But would it bother him if this agreement he made to stay together came to an end?

And what do you think would make him decide to be the one to end it, if anything?

 

[Ivy]

But would it bother him if this agreement he made to stay together came to an end?

And what do you think would make him decide to be the one to end it, if anything?

Of course it would bother him, and I'm not sure what would make him decide to be the one to end it, but it would have to be some serious shit going down. If shit went down to the degree that he was considering ending it, I'm sure he'd be a wreck, but I'm not sure how that relates to jealousy. If shit doesn't go down and he doesn't ever feel any jealousy because there's never any reason to because that trust is never broken in his eyes, according to your definition, it's not real love? Or does hypothetical jealousy count IYO?

 

[Salomé]

A lack of jealousy pretty much indicates a lack of vested interest.

Wouldn't being completely devoid of jealousy mean that you care not how much interest a person devotes in someone other than you, how much they share with that person, and what they do with that person? I think having no jealousy would mean not even being bothered if you parter had sex with other people, or shared personal information that they wouldn't with you, or preferer spending time with others, etc.. I think if you have absolutely no jealousy in a relationhip, then you value it as much as you do your relationship with any stranger.

No. Jealousy and love are incompatible.
If I love you and you never give me any cause for jealousy, it would be inappropriate for me to feel jealous. Unloving, in fact. That doesn't imply that I'm blase about how you choose to conduct yourself. It means that I trust you implicitly in the absence of any reason not to.

If I love you and you give me reasonable cause for jealousy, that would be unloving on your part. I have to then decide whether you are invested enough in the relationship for me to want to maintain it, or if I might have been misled as to your character. Being jealous is not a solution - it contributes nothing.

 

[NoahFence]

I would never be jealous for the primary reason that if my trust were broken to that degree, I'd never want to see the person again. Jealousy implies you want them back. I can't think I would. I would view it as a clear assertion they didn't want me, too. I'm not suggesting it wouldn't hurt, I would be devastated. But there is no combination of events that I can think of that would result in me feeling jealous for a person's affections.

I might be jealous of their car, though. Rich people suck.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Of course it would bother him, and I'm not sure what would make him decide to be the one to end it, but it would have to be some serious shit going down. If shit went down to the degree that he was considering ending it, I'm sure he'd be a wreck, but I'm not sure how that relates to jealousy. If shit doesn't go down and he doesn't ever feel any jealousy because there's never any reason to because that trust is never broken in his eyes, according to your definition, it's not real love? Or does hypothetical jealousy count IYO?

Yes the hypothetical jealousy counts. The sentiment and rationale
do not just appear at the very moment someone would have cause to feel jealous, and then go away as the situation does, that would be cognitively inexplicable. What would even be defining the triggering situation?

Basically, you could just be talking about the good fortune of never having had jealousy put to action. It hasn't been needed. But if you can hypothetically imagine a situation that would make you jealous, if you can have a dream about your husban that would make you jealous, you are jealous.

Presumably there are differing amounts of jealousy, I don't know what the right amount is per se, but my opinion is that you have to have jealousy over your partner doing certain things with other people, or you relationship with that person is completely unworthy of note, akin to my relationship to my mail deliverer.

Jealousy is anger over something that you think should be yours going to someone else. If you can have no jealousy, your relationship must be a blank contract.