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Thread: Anger

  1. #51
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    I've always found anger to be destructive first and constructive second. Ergo I usually disappear if I'm angry. Once I've had time to kill you sixteen ways from sunday in my head a more bright and breezy mood settles and then I can return with my wits in tact and kick your ass

    This whole internalise = bad thing that get's bandied about either I fail to understand it or as far as I can see it's an extroverts witch hunt. In my understanding of internalise that's exactly what I do with my anger. I stop emitting anything until the anger is processed (unless of course I'm trying to achieve something and get annoyed, in which case I often end up channelling that anger into progressing further which also often results in injuries and needing replacement things [most often I break stuff, stuff that shatters with a satisfying noise and level of mess]). I do turn inward and deal with it without recourse to emitting my foul temper (with exceptions as noted and others). I fail to see how sheparding an introvert into some "primal scream therapy"-esque treatment is a good idea. Sure they may well scream but you may also find that you'll stress them out whilst doing it and end up with an introvert up in your face which is never advisable.

    Personally I deal with anger strictly but that's mainly because I hate being angry. People swarm you when you're annoyed and try to check if everything is okay every frickin 5 seconds (can you tell I live with an ESTP? ). You get "concerned" Fs trying to soothe your temper when all you want is for everyone to stop looking and pointing before the instinct to poke their eyes out with their own pointing fingers grows too much to bear.

    That's why my first response to anger is removal of the source of annoyance often by avoiding it.
    Then I tend to fume for a while before a new and more interesting idea comes along at which point I can't really be bothered to maintain my flame.

    The only time I really can tell the difference between sheer unreasoned anger and the more tempered heat of righteous focused wrath is simply by the presence of reasoning.

    If I can reason and plan and analyse and figure out my next few steps (usually only a few cause I know full well that I won't be annoyed for long and so only make short term plans for it). If I am in the mood to achieve something constructive with my fuming then it's probably a reasonable mood (in context to the situation) where as if all I wish to do is injure people or rid myself of them somehow then (presuming it's someone I wouldn't normally wish to rid myself of) I'm probably feeling unreasonable and hence shouldn't really "bite" on this temptation.

    Of course another thing which I've found helped is music which resonates with my darker side. If I can enjoy the fires held there without having to be annoyed or irritated first then I become familiar with it and am more able to cope with it. That's not to say that people who listen to death metal all day are well adjusted, everything in moderation.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    Hmmm. I hadn't really focused on the differentiation between the hurt and the anger before these two posts (although others probably brought up the differentiation as well).

    I tend to blow through the "hurt" portion of it pretty quickly. Dwelling on the "hurt" starts making me feel like a victim, and I don't really want to spend time there. If I spend time dwelling on the hurt, then I get into more of a "revenge mode" where I want the response or compensation from the other person to be proportional to the hurt. But that seems counterproductive to me, because I'm probably not going to be able to convince the other party to value my hurt at the same cost as me.

    Instead, I tend to use the anger to blow off steam, then I can be proactive and move onto the stage of coming up with some resolutions. The resolutions don't have to incorporate the hurt, per se. The resolutions just have to establish some way we can live together without irritating each other: Like setting up some rules or erecting some good boundaries and then building trust by seeing each other adhere to the rules or boundaries. A lot of times, conflict arises in the first place because the parties had different assumptions about where the boundary lines were located.

    I think it comes from my time in the military: There were all kinds of routine little petty clashes, and there wasn't time to hold onto all the issues and sort them out. Better to get past the hurt and get on with working out some way to agree to disagree.

    My wife is more about dwelling on the hurt, and she can go the opposite direction from me and get into a whole thing where she doesn't care about working out a modus vivendi and getting past the conflict; first she needs to extract a pound of flesh from the other person to assuage the hurt.

    Sometimes I don't get where my wife is coming from; I just figure it takes two to tango, and each party was probably equally at fault in their own way (or from the other's perspective).

    But that's just my quick response to this new (to me) issue. I'll have to think about it more, especially in the context of Toonia's post (given that she's the OP).
    I see that the thread has moved on since yesterday. But I just wanted to return to the topic of hurt vs. anger.

    I've definitely gotten stuck in periods of "hurt" or a feeling of being "wounded" in the past, especially during long-term conflicts or long periods of stress.

    When a conflict or period of stress is extended, I may experience longer stages of progression to a resolution, or I may cycle repeatedly through various stages as issues keep coming up. For example: an extended fight or feud with a family member or roommate; or a prolonged period of job uncertainty where my workplace is going through lay-offs and I have to worry about my job.

    Thinking back to such episodes in my life, it seems to me that I go through a progression: 1) Feeling hurt or wounded, 2) Fear, 3) Anger, and 4) Clarity or resolution.

    IOW, going through the stages in progression:

    1) I feel hurt or wounded by a person or events and tend to want some kind of recompense and strong acknowledgment of my needs. But I rarely get what I want: In the event of a personal conflict, the other party doesn't value my hurt the same as me and/or may be wrapped up in hurt of their own; in the event of an outside event like job lay-offs, there's nothing to do but suck it up and wait it out.

    2) If I'm not getting any response to my hurt and the conflict or stress continues, I may sink into fear--a fear that the other person is being permanently unreasonable (in the event of personal conflicts) or fate has conspired to deprive me of basic necessities that other people enjoy (in the event of prolonged stress due to job uncertainty or some other outside event).

    3) But I only tend to put up with fear so long; fear inspires a fighting instinct and gets me irritable and then angry; feeling caged, I start raging and rattling my cage.

    4) Having thrown a temper tantrum, I'm more likely to cool off, maybe even see the humor in my situation, maybe feel a little silly at my childish tantrum and the rather silly fears that occasioned it, and start casting about for a genuinely workable solution.

    IOW I see this as a cycle, with each successive stage occurring as a reaction to the preceding stage. That is, hurt and anger aren't concurrent, and the level of anger isn't necessarily related to the level of hurt. The hurt and anger may not even be aimed at the same thing: When I'm stressed due to neutral outside events like a possible job lay-off, my fear is directed at the lay-offs, but my anger may be directed at the feeling of being caged by hurt and fear. I may be enraged at the sensation of "hurt" itself.

    This is all rather subtle, perhaps over-subtle. But I think it explains why I tend to want to get past the hurt quickly, and why I welcome the anger. The hurt is unproductive and early in the cycle, and I don't want to get trapped there. The anger, on the other hand is late in the cycle and is productive in the sense that it pulls me out of the early slump of hurt and fear and kicks me forward into the most productive part of the cycle--the resolution.

    With time and age I've run through the cycle so many times for so many different types of experiences that I can practically skip past the early stages of hurt and fear and go right to the anger, especially for smaller problems. By contrast, I don't really understand others who get stuck on the hurt and remain there. It's the least productive part of the cycle; one rarely gets one's needs met there.

    Also, as I noted earlier in the thread, I tend to see these emotional events as "reality checks." I've accepted that there has to be some kind of change (either in me or in my environment) before I can move forward. But dwelling on the hurt doesn't seem change-oriented--the "hurt" stage of the cycle just seems to want recompense and a restoration of the status quo ante. Anger, on the other hand, seems more action- and change-oriented.

    Just for background: I was poking around at Wikipedia a little bit, reading articles on anger and related subjects. I didn't find anything which encapsulated all of the above. But an article on self-preservation noted that pain and fear tend to stimulate adrenaline, which presumably would make it that much easier to move onward to anger (if one were so inclined). And an article on anger notes that "Anger can mobilize psychological resources for corrective action," presumably making it a productive end stage of the cycle. So maybe that provides some partial substantiation for seeing anger as the end of a multi-stage cycle in response to stress and conflict.


    Self preservation is part of an animal's instinct that demands that the organism survives. Pain and fear are parts of this mechanism. Pain causes discomfort so that the organism is inclined to stop the pain. Fear causes the organism to seek safety and may cause a release of adrenaline which has the effect of increased strength and heightened senses such as hearing, smell, and sight.

    Self preservation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Three types of anger are recognized by psychologists: One connected to the impulse for self-preservation, occurring when the person or animal is tormented or trapped. The second type of anger is a reaction to perceived deliberate harm doing or unfair treatment by others. Irritability, sullenness and churlishness are examples of the third type of anger which is related more to character traits than to instincts or cognitions.

    Modern psychologists view anger as a primary, natural and even mature emotion experienced by all humans at times, something that has functional value for survival. Anger can mobilize psychological resources for corrective action. Uncontrolled anger can however negatively affect personal or social well-being.

    Anger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    A good way I've found to manage such a situation is to actually assume the label given by others. This enables them to keep a "social matrix" that is not too disturbing and minimizes the conflict. By recognizing you're a bad person, the other person has nothing to argue about. Usually, in a conflict, everyone is trying to defend the fact that they're right and that they're the good guy. So if you say "Of course I'm bad and wrong. Hey, I'm a mean person" they basically have nothing to fight for and no means of manipulating.
    I agree, especially if you want to show any kind of leadership (be a boss in the workplace, or create any kind of difficult change in a social setting). Someone has to be the "bad guy" if things are going to get done, and it's easiest just to accept the label and trust that the short-term results--or your long-term track record--will ultimately vindicate your efforts.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Personally I deal with anger strictly but that's mainly because I hate being angry. People swarm you when you're annoyed and try to check if everything is okay every frickin 5 seconds (can you tell I live with an ESTP? ). You get "concerned" Fs trying to soothe your temper when all you want is for everyone to stop looking and pointing before the instinct to poke their eyes out with their own pointing fingers grows too much to bear.
    I do the same thing. When I get stressed and angry, I need a lot of space and can't stand anyone interfering. I want a human-free zone around me with at least a 50-foot radius.

  5. #55
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    I do the same thing. When I get stressed and angry, I need a lot of space and can't stand anyone interfering. I want a human-free zone around me with at least a 50-foot radius.
    You forgot the cost free glass and wooden panelling with a carefully discarded melee weapon with which to vent
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #56
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    I have to have (HAVE TO) alone time for as long as I need it or another eruption occurs.

    *kills Xander 20 ways creatively and smiles sweetly to self* Ah me. Found dreams these...
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  7. #57
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    I have to have (HAVE TO) alone time for as long as I need it or another eruption occurs.

    *kills Xander 20 ways creatively and smiles sweetly to self* Ah me. Found dreams these...
    :eek: I've been turned into ENFJ porno!!!
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #58
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    :eek: I've been turned into ENFJ porno!!!
    It's an exciting place. Come on, daredevil, and kick the tires. We have cookies... hahahha!

    (I'm putting Xander in a Freudian headlock thinking about his sister right now... MWAHAHAHAHA!! *tamps down inner Hamlet...*)
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  9. #59
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    It's an exciting place. Come on, daredevil, and kick the tires. We have cookies... hahahha!

    (I'm putting Xander in a Freudian headlock thinking about his sister right now... MWAHAHAHAHA!! *tamps down inner Hamlet...*)
    Errm it's worse than that. ENFJs are all around me! Not only is my sister one but my future mother in law is another and also my best mate! Now mike may well be "confident" enough to have straggly hair about three feet long but I reckon he'd draw the line way before this stuff!!!

    Anyhow of course I'll kick the tyres. how's about we start with that spare one you're dragging about?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #60
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Errm it's worse than that. ENFJs are all around me! Not only is my sister one but my future mother in law is another and also my best mate! Now mike may well be "confident" enough to have straggly hair about three feet long but I reckon he'd draw the line way before this stuff!!!
    ENFJs are plotting on you, Xander. Go quietly and we won't eat your liver. With fava beans.


    Anyhow of course I'll kick the tyres. how's about we start with that spare one you're dragging about?
    Just for that, I'm going to go to bed tonight and have a really hot dream about Christian Bale just so you'll get the creeps and have to change your avatar.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

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