User Tag List

First 34567 Last

Results 41 to 50 of 69

Thread: Anger

  1. #41
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    880

    Default

    Now my values are different. I think it's about time people start recognizing and valuing their Anger. Anger is a very powerful emotion and is at the root of constructive change.

    One of the problems I find in people today is that they are both a) too docile and b) getting frustrated at things not worth getting annoyed about.

    I think a) applies to the status quo and injustice, b) applies to intolerance, lack of self-control

    We are taught to be part of the herd, to be submissive, to be docile - even when authority or the situation is unfair. This conditionning starts at a very early age. Along with it comes the repression of feelings that are dangerous in their nature for the social group. Anger is one of them. When someone is angry, that person is standing up for his/her rights. That person is saying "NO, I will not put up with this". Research shows that the amount of people that have the guts of doing that is, what, 10%? Most people are like sheep - afraid of going against the status quo and getting rejected. Most people's fear of anger comes from their feelings of guilt and shame that follow from it.

    You know what angers me? People who don't get angry. People not standing up for themselves. People being carpets and accepting crap like martyrs. People going along with others because they're afraid... individuals who don't realize how strong they could be if they dared speaking up for their rights. Whole groups ostracizing members they saw as "deviant" because they annoyed others in one way or the other. This is related to the "enablers" thread. And what angers me the most are passive people who are annoyed by people trying to change things. There is one thing I can't stand and that's apathy and disengagement. You know, the "wtf? Who cares. It doesn't matter. It's idealistic" cynical attitude. That's the attitude of someone who is resigned. It's like the ostrich putting her head in the sand and pretending the rest of the world didn't exist. It's weak.

    Hey, we all have a responsibility in what happens around us. So instead of sitting around and complaining, we need to get angry and move our asses to act and change things. You have the RIGHT to defend your interests and stand up against what is unfair. Not expressing your anger is not being "strong", it's being passive and submissive. Don't buy into the BS of people who tell you to take the high road and ignore the problem/situation. It's because of all the people who do these things that many things never change and injustices perservere.

    Don't be a follower - be the leader of yourself and don't let anyone walk on you or abuse your rights. Anger is healthy when you're fighting for your rights and against injustice. Stand up for yourself and don't let anyone take advantage of you. Your needs, wants, opinions and feelings are just as important as they are of other people. Assert yourself, put your boundaries and speak up... you'll get more of what you want, will be understood better and will be respected.

  2. #42
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,226

    Default

    I don't think anger is always about standing up for one's rights and claiming one's needs. Anger can help you do that, but I think you can do that without anger, too. Anger and assertiveness aren't synonymous, though assertiveness often entails that one is not ashamed to express one's anger.

    Anger does have a lot of negatives. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, and all that. If you wound someone's pride or try to coerce them into doing what you want, they'll be less likely to do it than if you asked nicely and didn't get pissed at them.

    This thread isn't simply about anger and being fearful of its consequences. It's about how to tell when it's warranted and constructive and when it's not. Anger isn't always understood. It isn't always constructive. Anger is probably just like anything else: what you make it, how you use it.

    But I agree. Submissiveness isn't healthy or attractive. But neither is having so much anger that you're almost always pissed and can't get along with anyone.

  3. #43
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    880

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mempy View Post
    I don't think anger is always about standing up for one's rights and claiming one's needs. Anger can help you do that, but I think you can do that without anger, too. Anger and assertiveness aren't synonymous, though assertiveness often entails that one is not ashamed to express one's anger.
    Constructive anger is standing up for your rights. I think non-constructive anger is having too high expectancies about things and being frustrated.

    Managing your anger is essential to being properly assertive. Anger can be calm, controlled and a silent force rather than a temper tantrum like it is often considered. In any case, it is still anger.

    Anger does have a lot of negatives. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, and all that. If you wound someone's pride or try to coerce them into doing what you want, they'll be less likely to do it than if you asked nicely and didn't get pissed at them.
    I don't agree. I don't think you can generally say anger has a lot of negatives. It all depends on how you manage it. The situation you are alluding too is poorly managed anger.

    I also don't agree with the "ask nicely" in your last point. Leaders, Teachers, Policemen and Judges show us that there is nothing like firm assertiveness signalling fair authority to get people to comply - especially groups. You have to get yourself respected first. People respect strength in others, especially if it is measured and controlled. Asking "nicely" without being firm is not being assertive and may signal that your boundaries are thin and that you would be ready to get walked upon.

    This thread isn't simply about anger and being fearful of its consequences. It's about how to tell when it's warranted and constructive and when it's not.
    I don't see the point you are trying to make here. Would you care to explain your reasoning in more detail?

    Anger isn't always understood. It isn't always constructive. Anger is probably just like anything else: what you make it, how you use it.
    Yes.


    But I agree. Submissiveness isn't healthy or attractive. But neither is having so much anger that you're almost always pissed and can't get along with anyone.
    I don't think submissiveness is unattractive and unhealthy when the person knows that the situation is fair and warranted. It's when someone is getting abused and accepting it that there is a problem.

    Concerning your last sentence, the problem is if the anger is out of control and not managed - not with anger in itself.

  4. #44
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    TIGR
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    5,936

    Default

    I don't think anger is ever constructive or useful but that's not to say that I don't lose my temper quite a bit. I am very impatient and can be irrational at times. I started taking lexapro a little over a month ago and I am much better.

    I find that I get angry when things aren't as I would like them to be and when I am overwhelmed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Constructive anger is standing up for your rights. I think non-constructive anger is having too high expectancies about things and being frustrated.
    Thank you to the ENTJ for pointing out what is a better point of view. I will go with this rather than my above comment on anger not being constructive. Another fine reason to like NTJ's.

    Mav, am I to assuming you prefer neg rep points?
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  5. #45
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    880

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    Thank you to the ENTJ for pointing out what is a better point of view. I will go with this rather than my above comment on anger not being constructive. Another fine reason to like NTJ's.

    Mav, am I to assuming you prefer neg rep points?
    Hahaha

    Yes I'm all for the red dots I can only give neutral grey ones though

    BTW, I had another thought expanding on the anger issue. I think some people may do things out of anger without realizing that's what helped them because they assimilate anger with an out of control reaction.

    For example, recently a child in a friends' family was making alot of noise and being generally difficult. She hit an adult. Which of course made the father very angry, because she's not allowed to do that. So he looked at her and said, very calmly and in a firm voice: "Do *not* hit people. Because when you do that, you hurt others and make them feel bad. I do *not* want to see you hitting anyone again. If you hit someone again, you will be going to bed. Do I make myself clear?". That's what I call proper and controlled anger.

  6. #46
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    You know what angers me? People who don't get angry. People not standing up for themselves. People being carpets and accepting crap like martyrs. People going along with others because they're afraid... individuals who don't realize how strong they could be if they dared speaking up for their rights.
    Bravo! Yes, I feel the exact same way... [rant about friend who does just that pasted to my blog lol]

    And when you do make a habit of not letting yourself be trampled on, you get guilt trips from people saying you're "insensitive" and "mean". Yeah, cos I'm so mean for not letting you abuse me, huh? Or when you try to encourage others to take control of their own lives and stand up for themselves, you get called a bad influence. And their attempts to stand up for themselves are dismissed because "you've been talking to that guy again, haven't you?"

    It makes me mad that so many people seem to think that when they have a personality flaw, it's everyone else's job to compensate and allow for it, rather than their job to work on it and overcome it, to a point where, when they show this flaw to the point of being very hurtful and controlling of other people, the person who tells them publicly to get stuffed gets painted as the bad guy who's so mean because he made her cry. And people go for those damn crocodile tears and start working double time to pander to the bitch.

    Ahem... not that I have any personal um, involvement with this topic... LOL!!

    Things like that always make me mad straight away, and I usually express it pretty soon and pretty directly.

    But the other kind of anger, the one that's about the world failing your expectations or feelings of entitlement - well, on a conscious level I don't allow myself to feel that, I sorta intellectually 'destroy' the feelings virtually before they even appear. Or at least, I think I do. It has happened that many years after the event, the feelings have resurfaced. Very delayed, but strong and bewildering because I don't know what they're directed at, it takes me a long time to figure out what/how I feel and why, and I feel such an idiot when I finally do. Very disappointed in myself.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  7. #47
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    880

    Default

    Geez, I feel a sudden outpour of Fi

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Bravo! Yes, I feel the exact same way... [rant about friend who does just that pasted to my blog lol]

    And when you do make a habit of not letting yourself be trampled on, you get guilt trips from people saying you're "insensitive" and "mean". Yeah, cos I'm so mean for not letting you abuse me, huh?
    I completely relate to this point. That's exactly it! I also find it really ironic how people who clearly try to abuse you then turn around the situation saying that you're the one with the problem when you stand up for yourself. That's particularly vicious manipulation.

    Or when you try to encourage others to take control of their own lives and stand up for themselves, you get called a bad influence. And their attempts to stand up for themselves are dismissed because "you've been talking to that guy again, haven't you?"
    Oh yeah I absolutely see where you're coming from.

    It makes me mad that so many people seem to think that when they have a personality flaw, it's everyone else's job to compensate and allow for it, rather than their job to work on it and overcome it, to a point where, when they show this flaw to the point of being very hurtful and controlling of other people, the person who tells them publicly to get stuffed gets painted as the bad guy who's so mean because he made her cry. And people go for those damn crocodile tears and start working double time to pander to the bitch.
    Damn right. This is why, with time, I've noticed that in some people that are supposedly bad as depicted by others - you've got the biggest integrity. In other that are supposedly good as depicted by others - you can have just about the opposite.

    When you stand up, it's like breaching the "social matrix". It's like saying to everyone "Hello!!! You guys are refusing to see the obvious here? Woohoo! Can't you see?" and then people react as if telling you "Sure I can see but it's an ugly vision and I don't want to see things that way because it's stressful. I want to stay in the matrix". Well I tell you what, I'd prefer ten times living out there with the damn robots trying to kill me and Agent Smith trying to shoot my pants down than staying connected to the matrix. At least the people of Zion are genuine! And give me those mega rave parties with torrid human loving in hot n' steamy conditions

    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. People trying to help the other person like that often do not realize how much they enable the situation. Often the one who denounces the problem is held responsible for it.

    A good way I've found to manage such a situation is to actually assume the label given by others. This enables them to keep a "social matrix" that is not too disturbing and minimizes the conflict. By recognizing you're a bad person, the other person has nothing to argue about. Usually, in a conflict, everyone is trying to defend the fact that they're right and that they're the good guy. So if you say "Of course I'm bad and wrong. Hey, I'm a mean person" they basically have nothing to fight for and no means of manipulating.

    But the other kind of anger, the one that's about the world failing your expectations or feelings of entitlement - well, on a conscious level I don't allow myself to feel that, I sorta intellectually 'destroy' the feelings virtually before they even appear. Or at least, I think I do. It has happened that many years after the event, the feelings have resurfaced. Very delayed, but strong and bewildering because I don't know what they're directed at, it takes me a long time to figure out what/how I feel and why, and I feel such an idiot when I finally do. Very disappointed in myself.
    I'm just the same...

    I usually take some time to reflect and meditate peacefully. I try to take distance from it and realize how my expectancies were unrealistic. I try to take things with "philosophy" and realizing that I can't fight against what I can't control and those things I must let go.

  8. #48
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    TIGR
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    5,936

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post

    I can only give neutral grey ones though.
    Baahh!
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  9. #49
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Damn right. This is why, with time, I've noticed that in some people that are supposedly bad as depicted by others - you've got the biggest integrity. In other that are supposedly good as depicted by others - you can have just about the opposite.
    I remember years ago when I was having a few beers with some friends (of mixed genders and sexualities lol) and we started talking about what we would look for in a mate. I was the only one that said I need to see evidence of a good-bad temper before I'm interested. I want to see that there's passion there, that it's directed at the right things in the right ways, and that it's not afraid to show itself. It's often happened in the past that when I've seen someone get really mad and yell at someone - even if it's been at me - that's been the deal breaker for me!

    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. People trying to help the other person like that often do not realize how much they enable the situation. Often the one who denounces the problem is held responsible for it.
    In the case of my friend who I ranted about (then removed the rant to my blog as it was digressing from topic), it frustrates me that she thinks she's doing all this helping of her controlling mother out of kindness. In fact, it's out of cowardice - fear of causing conflict and being seen as the bad guy. It's a really alien value system to me... to be more concerned about seeing yourself (and others seeing you) as a kind and compassionate person, than actually doing what really is best for you and everyone.

    I usually take some time to reflect and meditate peacefully. I try to take distance from it and realize how my expectancies were unrealistic. I try to take things with "philosophy" and realizing that I can't fight against what I can't control and those things I must let go.
    Yeah, same here.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  10. #50
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    880

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    Baahh!
    But thanks for the points anyway

Similar Threads

  1. [INFJ] INFJs - anger and upset?
    By Eileen in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 70
    Last Post: 05-06-2015, 09:28 AM
  2. [INTJ] INTJ Anger
    By Metanoia in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 94
    Last Post: 12-29-2010, 02:30 PM
  3. [INTP] INTPs & Anger
    By Martoon in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 66
    Last Post: 09-05-2008, 10:58 PM
  4. Relationship b/w Anger & Sadness
    By ThatsWhatHeSaid in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 07-24-2008, 10:13 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO